[Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track

Thu Aug 5 11:17:23 EDT 2004

The broadcast folk have tried a lot of things over the years but now they
just mash everything to 10 dB dynamic range and send it out as loud as they
legally can.

Realize that all Dolby and dbx are recording processors. They are for
improving the dynamic range and frequency response of the tape recording
process. The are not processors to be added to already recorded  material.
What I am trying to say is that to use Dolby or dbx the material has to have
been recorded using the matching Dolby or dbx. There are several (like 6)
different kinds of Dolby and two different kinds of dbx and these too have
to be matched between record and playback. Don't invoke these processors on
ordinary non-processed recordings. they will sound very tinny and in general
bad.

Now something you can add to anything, particularly modern CDs and any FM
broadcast is than expander. I have a dbx 3BX III that adds back in some
dynamic range and makes most music much more delightful. It also has enough
leds to keep one happy just staring at it. Another toy that helps a lot is
the subharmonic generator. This takes the very lowest bass material and
synthesizes matching energy an octave lower. Makes the bass in most music
very clean and whole. I have the dbx 120. Note that these units are made by
dbx but are not dbx compressor/expanders in the dynamic noise reduction
(DNR) sense like your AN-180 or the AN-60. dbx does make several DNR units
both type I and type II which are incompatable with each other.

I think it interesting that the audio processors made 20-30 years ago are
now manditory for listening to CD and FM music. The equivalent of these
units are not being made today. The recording industry has ruined good
recorded music with their processing for use in boom boxes and autos with
the addition? of  massive compression. Good music has been reduced to the
lowest common denominator.

WBob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
<vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track

> Bob,
>
> I just happen to have the original tape and a copy of the manual. I got
this
> from a Ham friend on the west side of Michigan who saw it in a local shop.
He
> got it for a very small price. Because he is an excellent technician, he
checked
> it out prior to buying it. Other than some dirt, it looked new.
>
> he got it home and opened it up. Inside it looked like new. He doubted it
had
> ever been used, and if so, very very little. He cleaned all controls and
the
> front panel up, it looks like it just came out of the original box in the
> seventies.
>
> I did some checking and learned that the Teac AN-180 sold new for $350, no
> inexpensive item for the seventies!
>
> My cousin, Mr. If It Isn't Classical Or Opera, It Is Not Music, has the
AN-60
> for his Revox B77. (This Revox had no Dolby for those are wondering.) It
looks
> like a little toy compared to this complex machine with knobs, switches,
meters,
> jacks and so forth.
>
> It was tested and passed perfectly. Fully functional with all components
within
> tolerances.
>
> I do not truly understand what I am about to say, so know that at the
outset!
>
> I have heard that once upon a time commercial FM stations broadcast in a
format
> that required, or could use, a product like the Teac AN-180 to equalize
the
> incoming signal. This practice was shortlived though and was quickly
dropped.
> What was this all about? I know it was supposed to improve the frequency
and/or
> quality of the broadcast signal. Did it and if so, why was it dropped, and
so
> quickly? Simply not practical? More hype than fact? Cost too much for the
> obvious improvement to temtp the consumers, as in passing fad?
>
> It appears that one can add Dolby to anything you can plug into this item.
>
> Duane W8DBF
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: wolfbob <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
> To: Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back
> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track
> Date: Thursday, August 05, 2004 1:58 AM
>
> True, if nothing changes. The tape is an easy one to get. Someone with a
> calibrated deck can make you a tape at 185nWb/m fluxivity and I believe
700
> Hz. This is dB or the reference level for Dolby systems. dbx systems use
> 1000 Hz at 185 nWb/m. The frequency is the crossover point for the
> compression and needs to be correct.
>
> WBob
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track
>
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > How does the calibration tape work for the Teac AN-180 external Dolby
and
> > equalization unit? It is my understanding that once it is calibrated,
the
> tape
> > is not needed again. True or myth?
> >
> > Duane W8DBF
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > From: wolfbob <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
> > To: Mark - AA6DX <aa6dx at pacbell.net>; Vintage home and professional
audio
> > equipment from 1975 back <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track
> > Date: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 11:30 PM
> >
> > No sorry but wrong again. All the test tapes I have (about 12) all are
> full
> > track and are not ever used to align the heads in any dinmension that
> would
> > influence crosstalk. That is done by mechanical alignment of the tape
> edges
> > and the head gaps. Test tapes are used for setting levels, aligning
> azimuth
> > and correcting equalization, not for setting where the tape goes by the
> > heads. Again after aligning, testing and using about three different 1/4
> > inch 4 track reel to reel decks per week for the last five years, that I
> > have never heard ANY crosstalk on an aligned deck either with it's own
or
> > other decks tape or with prerecorded tapes (which I have about 100). You
> > possibly are mistaking print through for crosstalk.
> >
> > If you think the gap spacing is tight in 1/4 inch 4 track, it is the
same
> as
> > 1/2 inch 8 track and 1 inch 16 track, the very popular standards for the
> > recording industry. Carrying it to an extreme look at the cassette where
> you
> > have 4 tracks in 1/8 inch or so. Yet the cassette is not driven by the
> > appearance of any crosstalk.
> >
> > Now it was a problem in the decks made in the early 40s before they
> figured
> > out how to get some shielding between the gaps, but all of the Japanese,
> > most of the US and all but some early European decks have never had this
> > problem. Certainly any 4 track stereo deck used adequate shielding and
> > therefore no crosstalk as they were all built after about 1950.
> >
> > WBob
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Mark - AA6DX" <aa6dx at pacbell.net>
> > To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back"
> > <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 7:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] 2Track Vs 4 Track
> >
> >
> > > Cross talk is indeed an issue.  One may never hear crosstalk on a
> properly
> > > aligned 4 track, but, if you purchase pre- recorded tapes, or the
> product
> > > comes from a different recorder, you may well have your recording
> invaded
> > by
> > > other way sound.  Industry standard test tapes are designed to
eliminate
> > > this problem, but a lot of audiophiles never bothered, because the
tapes
> > > played back swell on their own machine.  Signal to noise is very
> > > important... but so is equalization and head room.  As an aside, most
> home
> > > users did not set their equalization to match their chosen brand and
> > > specific blank tape, and lost much of the quality they hoped to gain
by
> > the
> > > expenditure for the "high priced spread".
> > >
> > > Why do you suppose the broadcast industry universally uses half track?
> > > Surely not so they can spend more money on tape!  If your local radio
> > > station gets its ads (hopefully for your favorite presidential
> candidate)
> > > via ancient reel to reel tape, it will be half track.
> > >
> > > 15 IPS and half track was (or is, I don't know) the professional
> standard
> > > for high fidelity stereo content using 1/4" tape.  One inch tape if
you
> > were
> > > serious, and could afford the hardware.
> > >
> > > I spent 10 years in the sales part of audio, and 10 years in
Broadcast,
> > and
> > > throw in a few years in the advertising agency business.  But there
are
> > > those who know more than I.
> > >
> > > Far West Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> > > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> > > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
> > _______________________________________________
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> > List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> > ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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