[Vintage-Audio] Speaking On Speakers

Wed Jul 31 17:03:01 2002

When it comes to a critical ear, I have two of them. 	

I have listened to Bozak B310 being driven by Macintosh power amps, with control
center, tuner, and more, in a room designed for the system to perform properly.
I have listened to fifteen thousand dollar per channel speaker systems being
powered by the new age tube amps. I have heard more surround systems than I care
to remember!	

It all comes down to the recording medium being used. If the quality was not
there to being with, you will not hear it no matter why you play it on. Frankly,
the vast majority of what is recorded today is the quick, dirty and cheap
method. The focus is on the bottom line, profit. Not on quality, not on accuracy
and not on realism. It is just like the movies, special effects. Take away the
special effects, and most movies today are dead on arrival. No plot, no story
line and poor acting. It is all dependent upon computer generated special
effects and thunderous noise. Not to be confused with 'sound' or good audio.
Many times you can not hear most of what is being said because it is buried in
the racket. This is what the public is willing to pay for, so that is what
Hollywood makes. 	

I must disagree with Bob. The systems I have heard are simply overpowering and
overwhelming. It is not enjoyable to sit there and listen to an opera,
semi-classical, Broadway tunes done by a talented orchestra, vocals by gifted
artists and so forth. The intensity of the sound is so strong that it gets on
ones nerves and the enjoyment abates quickly. It is anything but realistic!	

If you go to a concert, other than rock, you will have a totally different
musical experience. You should be able to listen to a recording of what you
heard live with reasonable closeness in sound quality, dispersion and timber. 	

I do not hear this in today's recordings.	

What happened to the principals Dr. Nakamachi set forth in the fifties? he
carefully researched the auditory habits of humans, the audio reproduction
capability of the human ear and the way in which recordings could be done so as
to emulate this. What we have now is total amplification of everything with
little regard for note retention, audio fringe distortion and presence of
individual instruments. 	

Now we can debate this until Alchemists turn Plum Bum into Gold, and resolve
nary an issue while doing so. Music and sound reproduction is largely a matter
of personal taste, and unfortunately most humans lack in that area! Excluding
myself, of course. (grin) What is pleasing to one set of ears causes
constipation for another. Or is that consternation? What I do not like, Bob, is
that feeling of being overpowered by the audio being so intense that it is felt
as much as heard. To me, that crosses the threshhold into 'noise'.         	

Duane W8DBF	

----------
From: Bob <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Speaking On Speakers
Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 1:06 PM

Duane...(and others)..

Stereo is not having two speakers with similar sounds. It
started that way back in the 70s, when individually mik'd
instruments were "assigned" to either the left or the right
channel, but it has EVOLVED. Nowadays there is an attempt to
create a sound field where the various sounds are located in
3D space and this location is carefully established using
typical speaker separation (not binaural earphones). The
recording industry goes to some length to preserve this
sound field by carefully controlling phase and amplitude
through the recording process. On the repro end you too must
use care to realize this carefully created sound field. 

It really isn't just the same thing coming out of each
speaker, in a carefully designed repro system you can sit in
your chair and shut your eyes and locate every player,
instrument, tell who is breathing and who has hum in his
earphones. The spacial isolation allows your brain to focus
on hearing just one instrument in an orchestra, much like
you can focus your hearing on one person speaking in a
crowded room with your brain filtering out the other
speakers. 

Sounds great doesn't it...but it really doesn't work that
well. Two speakers isn't sufficient to create a really
detailed sound field. Three speakers is enough, but it takes
three channels of full range audio to create it. This is
what SACD (and DVD-A) is trying to do.

WBob

"Duane Fischer, W8DBF" wrote:
> 
> Robert,
> 
> If you really want to hear stereo separation, you need some older recordings.
> Especially anything recorded in the RCA studio in Nashville, TN.
> 
> Much of what they call music today (patented Fischer smirk) is electronic, no
> humans playing instruments, or very few. The same sound is on both channels
most
> of the time, sounds more like mono, frankly. The difference is not striking or
> obvious, as it once was.
> 
> Yes I have a digital surround system with three channels fed by CD, LD or DVD.
I
> even have a Sony DSS UHF high end tri-element dish set up.
> 
> If you want to hear the difference, come on over! Bring some corn to pop and
we
> will park in my sound area and rattle some timbers.
> 
> Duane W8DBF
> 
> ----------
> From: Robert Nickels <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Speaking On Speakers
> Date: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:03 AM
> 
> > One must also consider that the horns have a phase center
> > that moves with frequency and really messes up stereo's
> > sound field.
> 
> Bob originally made this comment in response to my previous post about my
> Altec Lansing Valencias, which are living room styled versions of the A7
> Voice of the Theater speakers, and I've been pondering it since...
> 
> While I agree with Bob on everything else (including the "Bose sound", ala
> my basement 901s),  I'm not sure about this "sound field" stuff.   I am no
> "golden ear" type, but I know good audio when I hear it and all I can say I
> wouldn't trade the sound of my Altec Lansing horns for most anything I've
> heard, which includes some pretty impressive speakers.   To my ear at least,
> the stereo separation (and what at risk of sounding like an audio-phool)
> I'll call "transparency" sounds fantastic.  I play all my Dish network audio
> thru them as well and sure don't hear any phase center error on either CD or
> digital audio sources.
> 
> One speaker that could turn my head might be a pair of Klipsch's, which as
> Bob says, is simply awesome.   An old buddy and I thought blowing out
> matches at 15 ft. was impressive, but breaking windows with "Victory at
> Sea"...yeah, I can see that!
> 
> Not trying to stir the pot - I find these posts very informative and
> appreciate Bob and others sharing their knowledge.  All I'm saying is that
> if you have a chance to glom onto a pair of horns, don't be afraid to give
> 'em a listen.
> 
> 73, Bob W9RAN
> 
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