From kblists at comcast.net  Tue Jun  3 12:59:35 2008
From: kblists at comcast.net (kblists@comcast.net)
Date: Tue Jun  3 12:59:45 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Help - In house TVI on cable sets
Message-ID: <060320081659.18062.48457877000083800000468E22007589429C9B9C07040D05@comcast.net>

I'm new to HF operating at my home qth, after passing the general 2 months ago.  Prior I have operated 2/440/6m to coax fed yagi's without any interference problems.

My initial interference began after I whipped up a coax fed 20m dipole and ran it in the backyard for an afternoon with the rig on a picnic table and a dubious ground.  Family reported interference on our living room flat panel LCD.

I had a random V dipole up for RX fed by coax for a few years, apex on the roof to yard corners.  I installed an RF ground (8 ft rod to 1" copper braid to a bus bar, and 1" braid to tuner & rig keeping lengths as short as possible), changed out the coax for home made window line, and purchased a tuner. I ran that for a little while on 18-80m without any known complaints.  Recently, a friend and I raised that dipole some 10 more feet, balanced it, and TVI returned.  I'm still a little short of detailed testing, but 20m seems to be the worse, on at least 2 TV's in the house.  I disconnected the tv coax on one TV and did not have interference when disconnected.  I do get some audio on a set of computer speakers elsewhere in the house.

At this point, I've been reading what I can, and am finding lots of differing opinions on how to resolve the problem.  At present, I've only had complaints from the family, not from neighbors at this point.  Radio is a 5 year old FT-897D, with the antenna and ground system mentioned, running 100 watts max.

Kevin
N1VMJ
From dr2500 at verizon.net  Wed Jun  4 18:10:57 2008
From: dr2500 at verizon.net (D. Ramos)
Date: Fri Jun  6 03:26:46 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] N1VMJ interference
In-Reply-To: <20080604080430.5E12F859E15@mailman.qth.net>
References: <20080604080430.5E12F859E15@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <0K1Y00GDILBCYEVN@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>

         Hello: I saw your message for help. You mentioned that after 
raising the antenna 10 feet , the TVI returned. You may need to see 
what your friend and you did differently to change the 
characteristics of the dipole. Have you tried using a verical antenna 
to see if the TVI disappears? Don't forget to get those ferrite bead 
filters you can put around power cords to reduce the RF coming in 
that way. Let us know what you find.

                                                                         Dan 
Ramos// Huntington Beach,CA
At 01:04 6/4/2008, you wrote:
>Send TVI-RFI-EMI mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Help - In house TVI on cable sets (kblists@comcast.net)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:59:35 +0000
>From: kblists@comcast.net
>Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Help - In house TVI on cable sets
>To: tvi-rfi-emi@mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID:
> 
><060320081659.18062.48457877000083800000468E22007589429C9B9C07040D05@comcast.net>
>
>
>I'm new to HF operating at my home qth, after passing the general 2 
>months ago.  Prior I have operated 2/440/6m to coax fed yagi's 
>without any interference problems.
>
>My initial interference began after I whipped up a coax fed 20m 
>dipole and ran it in the backyard for an afternoon with the rig on a 
>picnic table and a dubious ground.  Family reported interference on 
>our living room flat panel LCD.
>
>I had a random V dipole up for RX fed by coax for a few years, apex 
>on the roof to yard corners.  I installed an RF ground (8 ft rod to 
>1" copper braid to a bus bar, and 1" braid to tuner & rig keeping 
>lengths as short as possible), changed out the coax for home made 
>window line, and purchased a tuner. I ran that for a little while on 
>18-80m without any known complaints.  Recently, a friend and I 
>raised that dipole some 10 more feet, balanced it, and TVI 
>returned.  I'm still a little short of detailed testing, but 20m 
>seems to be the worse, on at least 2 TV's in the house.  I 
>disconnected the tv coax on one TV and did not have interference 
>when disconnected.  I do get some audio on a set of computer 
>speakers elsewhere in the house.
>
>At this point, I've been reading what I can, and am finding lots of 
>differing opinions on how to resolve the problem.  At present, I've 
>only had complaints from the family, not from neighbors at this 
>point.  Radio is a 5 year old FT-897D, with the antenna and ground 
>system mentioned, running 100 watts max.
>
>Kevin
>N1VMJ
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>TVI-RFI-EMI mailing list
>TVI-RFI-EMI@mailman.qth.net
>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/tvi-rfi-emi
>
>
>End of TVI-RFI-EMI Digest, Vol 23, Issue 1
>******************************************


From kblists at comcast.net  Fri Jun  6 09:39:34 2008
From: kblists at comcast.net (Kevin F. Berrien)
Date: Fri Jun  6 09:39:06 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] N1VMJ interference
In-Reply-To: <0K1Y00GDILBCYEVN@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <20080604080430.5E12F859E15@mailman.qth.net>
	<0K1Y00GDILBCYEVN@vms173005.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <48493E16.7030203@comcast.net>

D. Ramos wrote:
>         Hello: I saw your message for help. You mentioned that after 
> raising the antenna 10 feet , the TVI returned. You may need to see 
> what your friend and you did differently to change the characteristics 
> of the dipole. Have you tried using a verical antenna to see if the 
> TVI disappears? Don't forget to get those ferrite bead filters you can 
> put around power cords to reduce the RF coming in that way. Let us 
> know what you find.
>
>                                                                         
> Dan Ramos// Huntington Beach,CA

Thanks to all for the responses.  I did some operating on 20m yesterday, 
and I had a family member watching our main living room TV/TIVO and was 
told there was zero interference, except for a 2nd pair of computer 
speakers.  Perhaps at this point I'm only looking at one TV set (the one 
which does not get TVI when cable disconnected) and the speakers.  I'm 
going to replace that cable feed with new cable & good ends, and get 
ferrite for the speakers.  I'm also going to nail down 20 minutes of 
time with the wife to watch each set as I test all the band ends.

Will report back.

Kevin N1VMJ
From doc at kd4e.com  Fri Jun  6 20:56:00 2008
From: doc at kd4e.com (kd4e)
Date: Fri Jun  6 20:57:58 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Anyone tried a MPI-150 inverter?
Message-ID: <4849DCA0.9080605@kd4e.com>

The MPI-150 150W modified sine wave inverter
is on sale for $15.

Anyone tested one for RFI?

-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Free OS : http://www.ChurchPup.com
Based on: http://www.PuppyLinux.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com/kd4e.html
             |_|___|_|
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      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # KD4E
From doc at kd4e.com  Sat Jun  7 22:55:35 2008
From: doc at kd4e.com (kd4e)
Date: Sat Jun  7 22:58:22 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: [Was: 6 meters lives!]  Electric cars and RF? 
In-Reply-To: <auto-000496975399@mail.hal-pc.org>
References: <auto-000496975399@mail.hal-pc.org>
Message-ID: <484B4A27.800@kd4e.com>

Anyone know if the electric cars are RFI noisy
or clean and if they are vulnerable to near-field
rf?

Living in the sunny south we are seriously considering
an electric car - free recharge via the sun - once
the prices come down some.

> Just wait till bed time & all heck will break loose (Or at least that
> has been my experience the past week or two & with gas at $ 3.869 at
> the local Valero, firing up the truck to make some 6m QSO's is
> getting mighty expensive.
> 
> 73
> 
> Howard KE5APJ  -   EL29gq


-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Free OS : http://www.ChurchPup.com
Based on: http://www.PuppyLinux.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com/kd4e.html
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
                {|
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # KD4E
From kd7jyk at earthlink.net  Sat Jun  7 23:03:08 2008
From: kd7jyk at earthlink.net (KD7JYK DM09)
Date: Sat Jun  7 23:03:09 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: [Was: 6 meters lives!]  Electric cars and RF? 
References: <auto-000496975399@mail.hal-pc.org> <484B4A27.800@kd4e.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c8c914$3115cba0$b965f504@ELNkk7rc>

I am passed on the highway by numerous hybrid vehicles each day.  Forget HF,
you can hear these damned things coming and going, sounds like some of the
freaky acid death metal music.

Kurt

From roncasa at verizon.net  Sun Jun  8 10:41:10 2008
From: roncasa at verizon.net (ron)
Date: Sun Jun  8 10:41:05 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: Electric cars and RF?
In-Reply-To: <008e01c8c914$3115cba0$b965f504@ELNkk7rc>
References: <auto-000496975399@mail.hal-pc.org> <484B4A27.800@kd4e.com>
	<008e01c8c914$3115cba0$b965f504@ELNkk7rc>
Message-ID: <484BEF86.7060800@verizon.net>

KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
> I am passed on the highway by numerous hybrid vehicles each day.  Forget HF,
> you can hear these damned things coming and going, sounds like some of the
> freaky acid death metal music.
>   

I beg to differ. I know of hams driving them around with their radios 
and having no problem.
(Honda) Wiring radio into these should be no different than challenges 
of wiring into any car.
73
wb1hga
From k5gq at juno.com  Sun Jun  8 11:54:34 2008
From: k5gq at juno.com (Mark Tyler)
Date: Sun Jun  8 11:55:29 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: Electric cars and RF?
Message-ID: <20080608.105434.12519.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>

When the electric motor is running it can be heard on HF three cars away, reports from other HF operators in Houston.

I do not know of any Ham operating on HF using a Hybrid vehicle.
On FM it may not be a problem.


Mark 
K5GQ



-- ron <roncasa@verizon.net> wrote:
KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
> I am passed on the highway by numerous hybrid vehicles each day.  Forget HF,
> you can hear these damned things coming and going, sounds like some of the
> freaky acid death metal music.
>   

I beg to differ. I know of hams driving them around with their radios 
and having no problem.
(Honda) Wiring radio into these should be no different than challenges 
of wiring into any car.
73
wb1hga
_______________________________________________


____________________________________________________________
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From kd7jyk at earthlink.net  Sun Jun  8 19:05:50 2008
From: kd7jyk at earthlink.net (KD7JYK DM09)
Date: Sun Jun  8 19:15:27 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: Electric cars and RF?
References: <20080608.105434.12519.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <00fd01c8c9bd$8a0d79c0$af62f504@ELNkk7rc>

"When the electric motor is running it can be heard on HF three cars away,
reports from other HF operators in Houston.
I do not know of any Ham operating on HF using a Hybrid vehicle.
On FM it may not be a problem."

I am generally on HF.  Kiss HF good-bye when one is in the vicinity.  On FM,
I only hear them when right next to me.

Kurt

From doc at kd4e.com  Mon Jun  9 08:58:56 2008
From: doc at kd4e.com (kd4e)
Date: Mon Jun  9 09:05:55 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: Electric cars and RF?
In-Reply-To: <484BEF86.7060800@verizon.net>
References: <auto-000496975399@mail.hal-pc.org>
	<484B4A27.800@kd4e.com>	<008e01c8c914$3115cba0$b965f504@ELNkk7rc>
	<484BEF86.7060800@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <484D2910.10802@kd4e.com>

I wonder if there are specific brands or models that
are using noisy DC motors and others that are not?

Or perhaps it is the computer or other circuitry
unique to certain cars?

I wonder if they are sensitive to 100W+ HF or VHF/UHF
transmissions nearby?

Maybe we need to add this data into the RFI Registry?

With gasoline past $4. and no end in sight we will be
faced with lots more electric and hybrid vehicles.


> KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
>> I am passed on the highway by numerous hybrid vehicles each day. 
>> Forget HF, you can hear these damned things coming and going,
>> sounds like some of the freaky acid death metal music.
>> 
> 
> I beg to differ. I know of hams driving them around with their radios
>  and having no problem. (Honda) Wiring radio into these should be no
> different than challenges of wiring into any car. 73 wb1hga


-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Free OS : http://www.ChurchPup.com
Based on: http://www.PuppyLinux.com
Personal: http://bibleseven.com/kd4e.html
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
                {|
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # KD4E
From ingraham.ma.ultranet at rcn.com  Mon Jun  9 09:32:20 2008
From: ingraham.ma.ultranet at rcn.com (Andy)
Date: Mon Jun  9 09:31:35 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: Electric cars and RF?
References: <20080608.105434.12519.1@webmail09.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <015c01c8ca35$3fdec2a0$0302a8c0@Ingraham>

This doesn't really help you much ... but way back in the early days of
electric cars (not hybrids), the guys I knew who were driving e-cars were
also hams.

One of them (Phil, KA9Q) I think still drives an electric car, but I think
he is mainly into the higher frequencies and other modes.

Andy

From kblists at comcast.net  Tue Jun 10 20:20:26 2008
From: kblists at comcast.net (Kevin F. Berrien)
Date: Tue Jun 10 20:20:33 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Help - In house TVI on cable sets
In-Reply-To: <48457F5E.4060607@verizon.net>
References: <060320081659.18062.48457877000083800000468E22007589429C9B9C07040D05@comcast.net>
	<48457F5E.4060607@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <484F1A4A.8060806@comcast.net>

ron wrote:
> That tells me your signal is ingress into cable line. Check and 
> replace any suspect connectors. I even had a bad jumper cable and 
> tossed that miserable wire out the window!
>
> Of course, if same at your neighbors, it's their problem to clean it up.
>
> Try placing chokes on speaker wires or change their length. It's 
> acting like an antenna.
>
>
> 73 Ron
>
Ok, status update.  I'm pretty much tested the other main TV, and do not 
have interference. I changed out the cable to the kitchen (effected) TV 
today, and installed good connectors with the proper die, etc.. without 
any success.  I am going to experiment with its run path for 
experimentation value (it follows unfloor some power lines, and above 
floor a radiator).

I have 2 cable splitters, and I noted neither are grounded.  There is a 
hot water pipe right above, but the closest decent ground, a cold water 
pipe is some 5 feet away.

Chokes on the computer speaker wire worked like a charm.

Any more ideas or suggestions fromt the list?

Kevin
From ingraham.ma.ultranet at rcn.com  Tue Jun 17 23:02:26 2008
From: ingraham.ma.ultranet at rcn.com (Andy)
Date: Tue Jun 17 23:05:22 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Battery Minder chargers/desulphators
Message-ID: <018f01c8d0ef$bd8db100$0302a8c0@Ingraham>

I've been considering those storage battery charger/maintainers with
multiple charging phases for maintaining a 12V lead-acid storage cell
without overcharging, especially the ones that have a desulfation mode.

For example, the BatteryMinder has an automatic desulfation mode that pulses
the charging current at a 3.26 MHz frequency.  Another model says it uses
"random frequency pulsation."

Does anyone have any experience with these things?  Does the desulfation
current cause RFI into the ham bands?

When I looked at these a few years ago, I believe the desulfation mode was
enabled with a pushbutton.  But the newer descriptions imply that the
desulfation is continuous.

Would it be a bad thing to have one of these when you use RF equipment?

Thanks,
Andy

From doc at kd4e.com  Fri Jun 27 09:43:55 2008
From: doc at kd4e.com (kd4e)
Date: Fri Jun 27 09:54:03 2008
Subject: [TVI-RFI-EMI] Re: [FT-857] Re: HF radio and the ABS system in Chy
	Van
In-Reply-To: <g42ivh+sijj@eGroups.com>
References: <g42ivh+sijj@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <4864EE9B.702@kd4e.com>

You can also buy your own OBD II scan tool pretty
cheaply online or at discount places like Harbor
Freight.

Since we also have a Chevy van and plan to go mobile
I'd be interested in what you discover about RF getting
into your electronics.

> The codes are read through an OBD II scan tool.  If this happens 
> again, take your van to a local auto parts store, around here we have
>  Advanced Auto, NAPA, PEP Boys etc.  They will typically connect 
> their scan tool to your vehicle and tell you what the fault code is 
> for no charge, see what the code is indicating ie bad sensor, low 
> voltage to the sensor etc and then go from there. Good luck!  Greg
> K9Ig



-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
Have you tried 6m & 10M lately?  Wow!
Free OS : http://www.PuppyLinux.com
Personal: http://kd4e.com/kd4e.html
             |_|___|_|
             | | & | |
                {|
        /\      {|
       /  \     {|
      /    \    {|
     /   @  \   {|
     |   |~_|~~~~|
     |   -| |    |
============\ # KD4E
