From k4esa at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 15:15:03 2009
From: k4esa at yahoo.com (Bob Mantell)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:15:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TransAtlantic] First Post?
Message-ID: <652226.77586.qm@web59903.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I could not find any old ones???


73 de Bob,
?
?K4ESA EM74qc
?
Bob Mantell
k4esa at yahoo.com
?


      

From map at mapinternet.com  Wed Nov 11 15:24:12 2009
From: map at mapinternet.com (Mark Casey)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:24:12 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Welcome Message to Trans-Atlantic Remailer
Message-ID: <46E7C76CC70D45EC8C99B41B71D0264A@CASEYPC>

Hello Friends,

Thanks for subscribing. Please let anyone know about this remailer that you feel would be interested or have something to contribute. They need not be hams. I'm sure we'd love to have a transatlantic airline pilot with an interest in VHF listening subscribed, or maybe some DXer's that monitor the TV and FM bands for transatlantic signals. This remailer was an idea before a reality for a while. I hope it helps get a signal recieved across the Atlantic.

Most of all we need subscribers from both sides of the Atlantic, and South America and Africa, and from all the islands in between.

We are up to 15 subscribers in 1 day. Bob, K4ESA is the first subscriber to test the remailer a few minutes ago. And, congrats to Dave, N7BHC, for being the first subscriber only 14 minutes after the annoucement was sent out yesterday! Dex, W4DEX was a close second, only 1 minute after Dave. At last April's South East VHF Society Conference, in Charlotte, NC, Dave made 2 different presentations, both on subjects relating to transatlantic VHF communication. His talks were voted as the best of the conference. So, as shown by Dave's talks, when it is presented to the VHF/UHF ham community, the subject of a possible transatlantic qso is interesting to quite a few weak signal enthusiasts.

Scientific theoretical, predicted, and actual propagation disussions and observations will be welcomed on this remailer. For example, a subject like, "How different propagation modes might work together to complete a path from North America to Europe", would be a very good one.

This remailer will probably not be very busy, unless some propagation starts to happen. Interestingly enough, if you take a look at William Hepburn's North Atlantic map for yesterday, Tuesday, Nov., 10th, the first day of the remailer's existence, with the exception of a very narrow distured area mid-way, there was predicted an area reaching across of mild enhancement from the Southeast US coast to Spain and Portugal.

Initially the list is set at a maximum message size of 20kb. That will let you include most original messages in a reply, if desired. But, you might want to cut off some of the longer original messages in a lengthy reply.

Please listen for the transatlantic beacons:
WA1ZMS, FM07fm, Virginia, west of Lynchburg, 144.285
N7BHC, FM15pa, Oriental, Pamlico County, NC, (about 60-70 miles south west of Cape Hatteras), 144.291
K4MHZ, FM25df, Hatteras (town),near Cape Hatteras, NC, 144.300 

73
Mark Casey, K1MAP

From k4mhz at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 16:07:21 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:07:21 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] First Post?
In-Reply-To: <652226.77586.qm@web59903.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <652226.77586.qm@web59903.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC312A17FBA7F6-62DC-4C9A@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com>



looks like it! congrats!
 will check in 2-3 times a day if not traveling.
I also check DX Summit and DX Scape for my 6m & 2m beacon reports
Mark
K4MHZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Mantell <k4esa at yahoo.com>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:15 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] First Post?



I could not find any old ones???

3 de Bob,

K4ESA EM74qc

ob Mantell
4esa at yahoo.com


     
_____________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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From k4mhz at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 17:08:37 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:08:37 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Welcome Message to Trans-Atlantic Remailer
In-Reply-To: <46E7C76CC70D45EC8C99B41B71D0264A@CASEYPC>
References: <46E7C76CC70D45EC8C99B41B71D0264A@CASEYPC>
Message-ID: <8CC3132A6E30C9C-62DC-5E44@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com>






Mark
it would be great to see a copy of N7BHC's presentation.

to start a discussion,  I am not sure Horizontal polarization is optimal for a crossing. If water evaporization is a component of the path, vertical may be more optimal. I am looking at the impact of the pseudo brewster function over salt water to maintain a signal that may stay within 10 meters of the surface for long distances. A potential path woud be composed of evaporation and traditional ducting.  My marine vhf radio propogation work at 156 MHz was all vertical with  25 watt radios, 3-6 dbd antennas less then 30' Many Bermuda, Bahamas,Puerto Rico, etc receptions from Hatteras over the years... 
Thoughts?
Mark
K4MHZ  


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Casey <map at mapinternet.com>
To: WRemailer-TransAtlantic <transatlantic at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:24 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Welcome Message to Trans-Atlantic Remailer



Hello Friends,
Thanks for subscribing. Please let anyone know about this remailer that you feel 
ould be interested or have something to contribute. They need not be hams. I'm 
ure we'd love to have a transatlantic airline pilot with an interest in VHF 
istening subscribed, or maybe some DXer's that monitor the TV and FM bands for 
ransatlantic signals. This remailer was an idea before a reality for a while. I 
ope it helps get a signal recieved across the Atlantic.
Most of all we need subscribers from both sides of the Atlantic, and South 
merica and Africa, and from all the islands in between.
We are up to 15 subscribers in 1 day. Bob, K4ESA is the first subscriber to test 
he remailer a few minutes ago. And, congrats to Dave, N7BHC, for being the 
irst subscriber only 14 minutes after the annoucement was sent out yesterday! 
ex, W4DEX was a close second, only 1 minute after Dave. At last April's South 
ast VHF Society Conference, in Charlotte, NC, Dave made 2 different 
resentations, both on subjects relating to transatlantic VHF communication. His 
alks were voted as the best of the conference. So, as shown by Dave's talks, 
hen it is presented to the VHF/UHF ham community, the subject of a possible 
ransatlantic qso is interesting to quite a few weak signal enthusiasts.
Scientific theoretical, predicted, and actual propagation disussions and 
bservations will be welcomed on this remailer. For example, a subject like, 
How different propagation modes might work together to complete a path from 
orth America to Europe", would be a very good one.
This remailer will probably not be very busy, unless some propagation starts to 
appen. Interestingly enough, if you take a look at William Hepburn's North 
tlantic map for yesterday, Tuesday, Nov., 10th, the first day of the remailer's 
xistence, with the exception of a very narrow distured area mid-way, there was 
redicted an area reaching across of mild enhancement from the Southeast US 
oast to Spain and Portugal.
Initially the list is set at a maximum message size of 20kb. That will let you 
nclude most original messages in a reply, if desired. But, you might want to 
ut off some of the longer original messages in a lengthy reply.
Please listen for the transatlantic beacons:
A1ZMS, FM07fm, Virginia, west of Lynchburg, 144.285
7BHC, FM15pa, Oriental, Pamlico County, NC, (about 60-70 miles south west of 
ape Hatteras), 144.291
4MHZ, FM25df, Hatteras (town),near Cape Hatteras, NC, 144.300 
73
ark Casey, K1MAP
_____________________________________________________________


From n7bhc at drasticom.net  Wed Nov 11 20:52:05 2009
From: n7bhc at drasticom.net (N7BHC)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:52:05 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Welcome Message to Trans-Atlantic Remailer
In-Reply-To: <8CC3132A6E30C9C-62DC-5E44@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com>
References: <46E7C76CC70D45EC8C99B41B71D0264A@CASEYPC>
	<8CC3132A6E30C9C-62DC-5E44@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <D74EFAC5-2821-412E-94FF-6A6FE70E3EA3@drasticom.net>

Mark,

My SVHFS society presentations are available at http://sites.google.com/site/n7bhcvhf/files 
. Expanded versions of the two papers can be found in CQ VHF magazine.  
The article on subsidence ducting was in the previous issue, and the  
article on simple beacon/station construction is in the next upcoming  
issue.

73, Dave - N7BHC
===========================================
Email:  n7bhc at drasticom.net

N7BHC/B beacon
FM15PA
144.291 MHz CW
50 W - 16 element horizontal pol.
reports by email or phone +1 (704) 225-3928
===========================================





On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:08 PM, k4mhz at aol.com wrote:

> Mark
> it would be great to see a copy of N7BHC's presentation.


From k4mhz at aol.com  Wed Nov 11 22:36:01 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:36:01 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] N7BHC Presentations
In-Reply-To: <5C245D06-24EE-46A3-8213-B12B080D05A8@drasticom.net>
References: <46E7C76CC70D45EC8C99B41B71D0264A@CASEYPC>
	<8CC3132A6E30C9C-62DC-5E44@webmail-m057.sysops.aol.com>
	<5C245D06-24EE-46A3-8213-B12B080D05A8@drasticom.net>
Message-ID: <8CC31606410AB37-2A64-AC82@webmail-m081.sysops.aol.com>


Dave
Thank you!
very good info. we have a lot in common...I am the CEO of the Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers in Exton, Pa.  13,000 members world wide...We have a lot of radio folks, so if you do not object, I will share some of the thinking with those interested....

Projects in the works at K4MHZ:
1. a 100w, (continuous) 432 MHz beacon is started for FM25. All the parts in hand.
2. Joe/CT1HZE asked if my 6m beacon on 50.0625 MHz can go to 100 watts. it appears to be the most frequently heard from the southern U.S. A 150W amp is in hand that we will run at 100w with dual blowers.

I agree on your thinking about the path from NC to Africa. I have been in Hatteras since 1986. lived there full time for a number of years with amazing openings that do not appear to be heard inland. BTW:  I monitored the sea water temp on the path to the Azores from FM25. It seemed to be cooler then last year. 

My earlier beacon was hit by lightning. The beacon was a modified commercial FM 50W radio keyed with a programable CW ID in loop mode.  It ran 30w into a M2 omni at 50'. lots of reports from VE's to the north and Florida to the south. When I heard San Juan Coast Guard on 156.800 & 157.100 MHz could not raise anyone on 144.200 or .300 10 years ago.  

hope to have my Commander II power supply rebuilt for 600W on 144.300 manned at peake window next year.  
lets talk more...
73
Mark
K4MHZ
-----Original Message-----
From: N7BHC <n7bhc at drasticom.net>
To: k4mhz at aol.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 8:32 pm
Subject: N7BHC Presentations


Mark, 
 
My SVHFS society presentations are available at http://sites.google.com/site/n7bhcvhf/files. Expanded versions of the two papers can be found in CQ VHF magazine. The article on subsidence ducting was in the previous issue, and the article on simple beacon/station construction is in the next upcoming issue. 
 
73, Dave - N7BHC 
=========================================== 
Email: n7bhc at drasticom.net 
 
N7BHC/B beacon 
FM15PA 
144.291 MHz CW 
50 W - 16 element horizontal pol. 
reports by email or phone +1 (704) 225-3928 
=========================================== 
 
 
 
On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:08 PM, k4mhz at aol.com wrote: 
 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark 
> it would be great to see a copy of N7BHC's presentation. 
> 
> to start a discussion, I am not sure Horizontal polarization is > optimal for a crossing. If water evaporization is a component of the > path, vertical may be more optimal. I am looking at the impact of > the pseudo brewster function over salt water to maintain a signal > that may stay within 10 meters of the surface for long distances. A > potential path woud be composed of evaporation and traditional > ducting. My marine vhf radio propogation work at 156 MHz was all > vertical with 25 watt radios, 3-6 dbd antennas less then 30' Many > Bermuda, Bahamas,Puerto Rico, etc receptions from Hatteras over the > years... 
> Thoughts? 
> Mark 
> K4MHZ 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Mark Casey <map at mapinternet.com> 
> To: WRemailer-TransAtlantic <transatlantic at mailman.qth.net> 
> Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2009 3:24 pm 
> Subject: [TransAtlantic] Welcome Message to Trans-Atlantic Remailer 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Friends, 
> Thanks for subscribing. Please let anyone know about this remailer > that you feel 
> ould be interested or have something to contribute. They need not be > hams. I'm 
> ure we'd love to have a transatlantic airline pilot with an interest > in VHF 
> istening subscribed, or maybe some DXer's that monitor the TV and FM > bands for 
> ransatlantic signals. This remailer was an idea before a reality for > a while. I 
> ope it helps get a signal recieved across the Atlantic. 
> Most of all we need subscribers from both sides of the Atlantic, and > South 
> merica and Africa, and from all the islands in between. 
> We are up to 15 subscribers in 1 day. Bob, K4ESA is the first > subscriber to test 
> he remailer a few minutes ago. And, congrats to Dave, N7BHC, for > being the 
> irst subscriber only 14 minutes after the annoucement was sent out > yesterday! 
> ex, W4DEX was a close second, only 1 minute after Dave. At last > April's South 
> ast VHF Society Conference, in Charlotte, NC, Dave made 2 different 
> resentations, both on subjects relating to transatlantic VHF > communication. His 
> alks were voted as the best of the conference. So, as shown by > Dave's talks, 
> hen it is presented to the VHF/UHF ham community, the subject of a > possible 
> ransatlantic qso is interesting to quite a few weak signal > enthusiasts. 
> Scientific theoretical, predicted, and actual propagation disussions > and 
> bservations will be welcomed on this remailer. For example, a > subject like, 
> How different propagation modes might work together to complete a > path from 
> orth America to Europe", would be a very good one. 
> This remailer will probably not be very busy, unless some > propagation starts to 
> appen. Interestingly enough, if you take a look at William Hepburn's > North 
> tlantic map for yesterday, Tuesday, Nov., 10th, the first day of the > remailer's 
> xistence, with the exception of a very narrow distured area mid-way, > there was 
> redicted an area reaching across of mild enhancement from the > Southeast US 
> oast to Spain and Portugal. 
> Initially the list is set at a maximum message size of 20kb. That > will let you 
> nclude most original messages in a reply, if desired. But, you might > want to 
> ut off some of the longer original messages in a lengthy reply. 
> Please listen for the transatlantic beacons: 
> A1ZMS, FM07fm, Virginia, west of Lynchburg, 144.285 
> 7BHC, FM15pa, Oriental, Pamlico County, NC, (about 60-70 miles south > west of 
> ape Hatteras), 144.291 
> 4MHZ, FM25df, Hatteras (town),near Cape Hatteras, NC, 144.300 
> 73 
> ark Casey, K1MAP 
> _____________________________________________________________ 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________ 
> TransAtlantic mailing list 
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic 
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net 
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
 


From n0tvj at atmc.net  Thu Nov 19 13:18:27 2009
From: n0tvj at atmc.net (Al N0tvj)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:18:27 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New to List
Message-ID: <A986ED107A2846F288E82F2876E4E50D@N0TVJ>

Hi to All

My Name is Al White N0TVJ and I live in Eastern North Carolina in Brunswick County
and my QTH is about 1.5 miles from the Ocean. (Grid FM03uw) (Lat: 33.55.56N Long: 78.16.06 W)
and saw the announcement on themicrowave-request at lists.valinet.com  concerning this project.
I am a retired Telcom Engineer currently constructing a EME station using a HPSDR for the
IF portion of the Transmitter / Receiver. And the Idea of a Beacon System and the possibility
of studying VHF-UHF-Microwave coastal propagation is very interesting to me.
The results of some testing in this area would allow me to use and debug the 
equipment needed for EME at the same frequencies.
As I intend to try EME on 144 MHz  to 10 GHz the hardware requirements are similar.
 I know from my progress to date that the mechanical part of the EME dish
will take a number of years to complete so I have plenty of time for such a project. 
My QTH seems to be in the zone where a good site could be located.  
Link to map on APRS http://aprs.fi/?call=N0TVJ
I have High Speed Internet at my location and most of the
equipment being constructed for EME on 144 MHz  to 10 GHz could also be used for the TransAtlantic
monitoring / contacts.  
I may have to build a less directional antennas depending on the targeted received locations. 
I have gone to the links ( http://sites.google.com/site/n7bhcvhf/) referenced in Mark Casey, K1MAP 
and Dave - N7BHC email postings  and have a number of questions about how to best proceed. 
I hope following this list will provide some of them.
One is the first is the contact details for Dave.

Thank you for the bandwidth

73's

Al N0TVJ

From k4mhz at aol.com  Thu Nov 19 19:15:47 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:15:47 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New to List
In-Reply-To: <A986ED107A2846F288E82F2876E4E50D@N0TVJ>
References: <A986ED107A2846F288E82F2876E4E50D@N0TVJ>
Message-ID: <8CC378DBD18ED2B-308C-AA44@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com>


Welcome... good to hear another thinker...

Please listen for my transatlantic beacon on 144.300 MHz CW in FM25, Hatteras, NC (Dare County)

More detail on the QRZ.Com web page for K4MHZ.

73
Mark
K4MHZ


-----Original Message-----
From: Al N0tvj <n0tvj at atmc.net>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 1:18 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New to List


Hi to All
My Name is Al White N0TVJ and I live in Eastern North Carolina in Brunswick 
ounty
nd my QTH is about 1.5 miles from the Ocean. (Grid FM03uw) (Lat: 33.55.56N 
ong: 78.16.06 W)
nd saw the announcement on themicrowave-request at lists.valinet.com  concerning 
his project.
 am a retired Telcom Engineer currently constructing a EME station using a 
PSDR for the
F portion of the Transmitter / Receiver. And the Idea of a Beacon System and 
he possibility
f studying VHF-UHF-Microwave coastal propagation is very interesting to me.
he results of some testing in this area would allow me to use and debug the 
quipment needed for EME at the same frequencies.
s I intend to try EME on 144 MHz  to 10 GHz the hardware requirements are 
imilar.
I know from my progress to date that the mechanical part of the EME dish
ill take a number of years to complete so I have plenty of time for such a 
roject. 
y QTH seems to be in the zone where a good site could be located.  
ink to map on APRS http://aprs.fi/?call=N0TVJ
 have High Speed Internet at my location and most of the
quipment being constructed for EME on 144 MHz  to 10 GHz could also be used for 
he TransAtlantic
onitoring / contacts.  
 may have to build a less directional antennas depending on the targeted 
eceived locations. 
 have gone to the links ( http://sites.google.com/site/n7bhcvhf/) referenced in 
ark Casey, K1MAP 
nd Dave - N7BHC email postings  and have a number of questions about how to 
est proceed. 
 hope following this list will provide some of them.
ne is the first is the contact details for Dave.
Thank you for the bandwidth
73's
Al N0TVJ
_____________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From stanw1le at verizon.net  Fri Nov 20 12:57:33 2009
From: stanw1le at verizon.net (Stan, W1LE)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 12:57:33 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Infrastructure for Beacon Monitoring
Message-ID: <4B06D88D.7090205@verizon.net>

Hello Al, Mark and the Net:

Welcome all. 

Beacons have a special interest to me because somewhere,
on some frequency there is a beacon. Some local , some DX.

I am starting with an infrastructure that will support beacon monitoring.

Just cleared some more land in the back yard to support the additional 
antennas.
whether the antennas are wire or arrays of yagi you need room and a 
support structure
to point them.

In the shack you will certainly need a RX for the freq of concern,
but that is not hard to do with a modern transceiver.
For 2M beacon monitoring I use a ICOM IC-910H with optional ovenized 
reference osc.

But here are beacons on many other freqs, like NDB's, non direction 
beacons,
used as nav aides for airplanes. found below 500 KHz.
Folks are also perfecting their skills on AM/FM/TV commercial stations 
as beacons.

Part of your station infrastructure needs to consider a station 
reference oscillator,
like an accurate 10 MHz from a GPS Disciplined oscillator.

With accurate frequencies (better than 0.1 Hz) on RX and TX you can use 
the significant
processing gains of commonly available software like LinRad, Spectrum 
Lab, WinRad,
 or ARGO or other HPSDR/SDR programs.

The future of beacons includes implementation of PC programs like K1JT's 
WSPR program
and other modulation schemes like QRSS, very slow CW with up to 120 
second dot lengths.

These techniques have been demonstrated on the 137/85 KHz and HF bands.
Frequency accuracy and DSP allows processing in a less than 1.0 Hz 
bandwidth.

Ebay can be your friend. The big fleamarket in the ether has been a
invaluable resource to get a variety of commercial test equipment at 
less than
pennies to the dollar at original price.

Explore the FCC Part 15 and Part 5 beacon opportunities.

Perfecting our monitoring  skills on other freqs will get us all ready 
for the
"cross the pond" beacons and QSO's to come.

Beacon monitoring is fun.

Stan, W1LE     Cape Cod     FN41sr




ZZZZZ






From skyking at clear.net.nz  Tue Nov 24 16:38:33 2009
From: skyking at clear.net.nz (Bob Cooper)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:38:33 +1300
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!
Message-ID: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>

As an introduction to members of this group, I am licensed presently as ZL4AAA and K6EDX, hold 6 meter WAS #21 (K6EDX) and #278 (W5KHT). Operated as VP5D (49 states less Alaska but WAC several times); 26 states on 2 meters from VP5 and hold one end of 'East Coast' 432 distance record. From ZL4AAA 40 6M states and WAC including VU2 long path across Africa, Atlantic, SA, Pacific (SSB and CW several times). Wrote QST Microwave Column in 80-81, Radio Electronics TV and FM DX column 1956-1961; publisher DXing Horizons and many more thereafter. Moved from VP5 to ZL1 (despite the ZL4 call) 1990, operate only cable TV system in NZ and a regional FM radio network of 3 stations. Founded American Ionospheric Propagation Association - AIPA (try saying that without taking a breath!) 1954 and created world's first TV-FM DX monthly printed bulletin. Have authored 44 books, several thousand magazine articles, well past 30 million words in print (i.e. VHF Horizons, Television Horizons, Communications Horizons, CATJ - Community Antenna Television Journal, CSD - Coop's Satellite Digest, SF - SatFACTS Monthly and this barely scratches the surface); enough, even for me! At almost 72 years of age pride is no longer an issue. Went to school with Mike (K6MYC) who remains a close friend, was doing 10 GHz in 1974 when it was still a Gunnplexer issue.

VHF-UHF wave propagation? Covering the world of TV (and FM) DX as I have from 1956 onward, have been exposed to untold thousands of reports including lengthy exchanges with those enthusiasts. And have several strong opinions based upon this data base concerning what it will take to claim the Irish trophy. Two quick examples: KH6 to XE/W6/W7 is illustrative. As was seminal work done by a TV DXer in the mountains above Monterey (Mexico) a decade ago; leading to a brash statement: Large/huge high pressure areas bearing the potential for exceptional distance ducting are more easily understood if you closely study the physical location of each end - whether it is transmitter west end - receiver east end or vice versa (the two are not always reversible). In well over 50% of all KH6-mainland contacts or reports, the west end is elevation-high and the east end is elevation-low (even down to sea level). A reminder: W6NLZ and KH6UK were sent on their quest because Honolulu-SFO planes during the summer months frequently found the KH6 end 121 MHz signals overpowering the California signals as they dropped for the SFO runway and were between 800 and 1,200 feet. Fernando in Monterey had almost identical experiences logging several hundred UHF TV stations from essentially the entire east coast but only as far north as North Carolina - distances pushing 1,700 miles. Then there is the legendary observation by a W6 ham stationed on Terceira (Azores; Lajes Field) in the late 50s (or so the story goes); two solid days of high quality FM band reception from approximately Maryland to Maine using a very basic table-top FM radio connected to dipole in his near-sea- level quarters. And these are the tip of this particular berg. Repeating the to-me most obvious similarity in the reports: Within a large high pressure dome capable of layered ducting, the west end duct elevation tends to be 'high' while the east end gets right down to the deck a high percentage of the time. No, not 100 but easily 50% and possibly as high as 70%. 

What this suggests, at least to me, is we begin our quest by searching out a suitable elevated western end launch site as well as a near-deck east end receptor QTH. If that suggests being at or near the water at essentially sea-level along the US east coast might not be where you should be - well, that's what I am saying. Also recall W6NLZ may have been properly located in the Palos Verdes Hills (~600') but Tommy (UK) was elevation-restricted (I believe) based upon how long it took for them to make it work (both ends were superbly equipped, capable of horizon-set EME by today's standards - whereas subsequently a 5-watt handheld to a 5 element yagi at sea level has worked to KH6); had he been a couple of K feet higher - well, another story. Alternatives? Another day. 73, Bob Cooper K6EDX et al

...

From k4mhz at aol.com  Tue Nov 24 19:43:00 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:43:00 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!
In-Reply-To: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <8CC3B7F5FBDB852-1428-552@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com>




(i.e. VHF Horizons, Television Horizons, Commun

Bob
Good to hear from you... looks like a good debate starting on the propagation most probable on this path. to include if the KH6 to W6 path is similar to CT or CU to W/K land.  i am also thinking that vertical may be significantly better in some cases. 

Sounds like you are a cable guy. Ever hear of the SCTE/Society of Cable Telecommunications Engineers ? 

Mark
K4MHZ


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cooper <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 4:38 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!



As an introduction to members of this group, I am licensed presently as ZL4AAA 
nd K6EDX, hold 6 meter WAS #21 (K6EDX) and #278 (W5KHT). Operated as VP5D (49 
tates less Alaska but WAC several times); 26 states on 2 meters from VP5 and 
old one end of 'East Coast' 432 distance record. From ZL4AAA 40 6M states and 
AC including VU2 long path across Africa, Atlantic, SA, Pacific (SSB and CW 
everal times). Wrote QST Microwave Column in 80-81, Radio Electronics TV and FM 
X column 1956-1961; publisher DXing Horizons and many more thereafter. Moved 
rom VP5 to ZL1 (despite the ZL4 call) 1990, operate only cable TV system in NZ 
nd a regional FM radio network of 3 stations. Founded American Ionospheric 
ropagation Association - AIPA (try saying that without taking a breath!) 1954 
nd created world's first TV-FM DX monthly printed bulletin. Have authored 44 
ooks, several thousand magazine articles, well past 30 million words in print 
i.e. VHF Horizons, Television Horizons, Commun
ications Horizons, CATJ - Community Antenna Television Journal, CSD - Coop's 
atellite Digest, SF - SatFACTS Monthly and this barely scratches the surface); 
nough, even for me! At almost 72 years of age pride is no longer an issue. Went 
o school with Mike (K6MYC) who remains a close friend, was doing 10 GHz in 1974 
hen it was still a Gunnplexer issue.
VHF-UHF wave propagation? Covering the world of TV (and FM) DX as I have from 
956 onward, have been exposed to untold thousands of reports including lengthy 
xchanges with those enthusiasts. And have several strong opinions based upon 
his data base concerning what it will take to claim the Irish trophy. Two quick 
xamples: KH6 to XE/W6/W7 is illustrative. As was seminal work done by a TV DXer 
n the mountains above Monterey (Mexico) a decade ago; leading to a brash 
tatement: Large/huge high pressure areas bearing the potential for exceptional 
istance ducting are more easily understood if you closely study the physical 
ocation of each end - whether it is transmitter west end - receiver east end or 
ice versa (the two are not always reversible). In well over 50% of all 
H6-mainland contacts or reports, the west end is elevation-high and the east 
nd is elevation-low (even down to sea level). A reminder: W6NLZ and KH6UK were 
ent on their quest because Honolulu-SFO planes d
uring the summer months frequently found the KH6 end 121 MHz signals 
verpowering the California signals as they dropped for the SFO runway and were 
etween 800 and 1,200 feet. Fernando in Monterey had almost identical 
xperiences logging several hundred UHF TV stations from essentially the entire 
ast coast but only as far north as North Carolina - distances pushing 1,700 
iles. Then there is the legendary observation by a W6 ham stationed on Terceira 
Azores; Lajes Field) in the late 50s (or so the story goes); two solid days of 
igh quality FM band reception from approximately Maryland to Maine using a very 
asic table-top FM radio connected to dipole in his near-sea- level quarters. 
nd these are the tip of this particular berg. Repeating the to-me most obvious 
imilarity in the reports: Within a large high pressure dome capable of layered 
ucting, the west end duct elevation tends to be 'high' while the east end gets 
ight down to the deck a high percentage of the time.
 No, not 100 but easily 50% and possibly as high as 70%. 
What this suggests, at least to me, is we begin our quest by searching out a 
uitable elevated western end launch site as well as a near-deck east end 
eceptor QTH. If that suggests being at or near the water at essentially 
ea-level along the US east coast might not be where you should be - well, 
hat's what I am saying. Also recall W6NLZ may have been properly located in the 
alos Verdes Hills (~600') but Tommy (UK) was elevation-restricted (I believe) 
ased upon how long it took for them to make it work (both ends were superbly 
quipped, capable of horizon-set EME by today's standards - whereas subsequently 
 5-watt handheld to a 5 element yagi at sea level has worked to KH6); had he 
een a couple of K feet higher - well, another story. Alternatives? Another day. 
3, Bob Cooper K6EDX et al
...
_____________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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From k4mhz at aol.com  Tue Nov 24 19:58:01 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:58:01 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!
In-Reply-To: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <8CC3B8178EA2372-1428-836@webmail-m038.sysops.aol.com>



Bob
We may have worked on 75,40 or 20m during the VK/ZL contest. I took 1st place in North America in 2007 with experimental antennas on salt water using the pseudo brewster function as applied to broadcast antennas, 1/4, 1/2 and 5/8 wave end fed on the edge of Pamlico sound.  

I passed my first class radio telephone at 18 years old and work at broadcast stations. i then went into Cable TV Engineering.  

Mark
K4MHZ 


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cooper <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tue, Nov 24, 2009 4:38 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!


As an introduction to members of this group, I am licensed presently as ZL4AAA 
nd K6EDX, hold 6 meter WAS #21 (K6EDX) and #278 (W5KHT). Operated as VP5D (49 
tates less Alaska but WAC several times); 26 states on 2 meters from VP5 and 
old one end of 'East Coast' 432 distance record. From ZL4AAA 40 6M states and 
AC including VU2 long path across Africa, Atlantic, SA, Pacific (SSB and CW 
everal times). Wrote QST Microwave Column in 80-81, Radio Electronics TV and FM 
X column 1956-1961; publisher DXing Horizons and many more thereafter. Moved 
rom VP5 to ZL1 (despite the ZL4 call) 1990, operate only cable TV system in NZ 
nd a regional FM radio network of 3 stations. Founded American Ionospheric 
ropagation Association - AIPA (try saying that without taking a breath!) 1954 
nd created world's first TV-FM DX monthly printed bulletin. Have authored 44 
ooks, several thousand magazine articles, well past 30 million words in print 
i.e. VHF Horizons, Television Horizons, Commun
ications Horizons, CATJ - Community Antenna Television Journal, CSD - Coop's 
atellite Digest, SF - SatFACTS Monthly and this barely scratches the surface); 
nough, even for me! At almost 72 years of age pride is no longer an issue. Went 
o school with Mike (K6MYC) who remains a close friend, was doing 10 GHz in 1974 
hen it was still a Gunnplexer issue.
VHF-UHF wave propagation? Covering the world of TV (and FM) DX as I have from 
956 onward, have been exposed to untold thousands of reports including lengthy 
xchanges with those enthusiasts. And have several strong opinions based upon 
his data base concerning what it will take to claim the Irish trophy. Two quick 
xamples: KH6 to XE/W6/W7 is illustrative. As was seminal work done by a TV DXer 
n the mountains above Monterey (Mexico) a decade ago; leading to a brash 
tatement: Large/huge high pressure areas bearing the potential for exceptional 
istance ducting are more easily understood if you closely study the physical 
ocation of each end - whether it is transmitter west end - receiver east end or 
ice versa (the two are not always reversible). In well over 50% of all 
H6-mainland contacts or reports, the west end is elevation-high and the east 
nd is elevation-low (even down to sea level). A reminder: W6NLZ and KH6UK were 
ent on their quest because Honolulu-SFO planes d
uring the summer months frequently found the KH6 end 121 MHz signals 
verpowering the California signals as they dropped for the SFO runway and were 
etween 800 and 1,200 feet. Fernando in Monterey had almost identical 
xperiences logging several hundred UHF TV stations from essentially the entire 
ast coast but only as far north as North Carolina - distances pushing 1,700 
iles. Then there is the legendary observation by a W6 ham stationed on Terceira 
Azores; Lajes Field) in the late 50s (or so the story goes); two solid days of 
igh quality FM band reception from approximately Maryland to Maine using a very 
asic table-top FM radio connected to dipole in his near-sea- level quarters. 
nd these are the tip of this particular berg. Repeating the to-me most obvious 
imilarity in the reports: Within a large high pressure dome capable of layered 
ucting, the west end duct elevation tends to be 'high' while the east end gets 
ight down to the deck a high percentage of the time.
 No, not 100 but easily 50% and possibly as high as 70%. 
What this suggests, at least to me, is we begin our quest by searching out a 
uitable elevated western end launch site as well as a near-deck east end 
eceptor QTH. If that suggests being at or near the water at essentially 
ea-level along the US east coast might not be where you should be - well, 
hat's what I am saying. Also recall W6NLZ may have been properly located in the 
alos Verdes Hills (~600') but Tommy (UK) was elevation-restricted (I believe) 
ased upon how long it took for them to make it work (both ends were superbly 
quipped, capable of horizon-set EME by today's standards - whereas subsequently 
 5-watt handheld to a 5 element yagi at sea level has worked to KH6); had he 
een a couple of K feet higher - well, another story. Alternatives? Another day. 
3, Bob Cooper K6EDX et al
...
_____________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From map at mapinternet.com  Tue Nov 24 20:17:06 2009
From: map at mapinternet.com (Mark Casey)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:17:06 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Fw:  New participant - I think!
Message-ID: <29BF7E19CD5B4EC3B5B7F8F9D3B41A67@CASEYPC>

From: "Bob Cooper" <skyking at clear.net.nz>

If on a high percentage, inside massive high pressure areas (over water) the
ducts are more elevated at the western end than the eastern, what does that
suggest? It could mean the KH6 end is not the 'end of the line' - the duct
might be extending well further west and it is only because of excessive
elevation in say KH6 that there is 'coupling' into the duct. On the other
hand, once you go 'past' the KH6 beacon/portable operation point, it is one
very long distance to the theoretical far western end of the duct (which
may - or may not - be back at surface level again). The problem with this
scenario is further west than say the KH6 functional point, or Monterey's
elevations for TV DX observations, we run into either 'nothing' or we bump
into much higher elevations (further west than our Monterey observer the
elevations rapidly rise and logically they would be the end of the duct).
The Monterey observer, Fernando Garcia, was especially astute with enough
knowledge to concentrate primarily on (then analog) UHF-TV and FM. From his
1,400' elevation home base, on numerous band openings he was clever enough
to drive higher into the mountains, and then down hill, to determine where
on his car's FM radio the ducting signals simply disappeared (i.e.. he drove
'out of the duct'). There is good value here for all of us (the answer to
your question varied from opening to opening but on average the ducts
appeared to be around 300 feet in thickness; above or below and the signals
were gone).

When I lived in VP5 and (May 9-10, 1989) worked from North Carolina to Maine
on 2 and 432, numerous folks would later report to me their frustration that
a fellow ham "two miles away made contact and I never heard you!" What they
would later work out was the guy I worked was 100 feet higher (or lower)
than they were. Ducts are invisible-to-the-eye frequency selective
'waveguides' with well defined boundaries. There is good value here as well.

No two 'openings' will be 'the same' as Fernando Garcia documented over many
years of careful records. Here are the basics. Every (NA) spring, high
pressure with ducting potential forms over the middle and western Gulf of
Mexico (GOM). Going back to 1950, adventurous folks in Mexico down the
coastline south of Harlingen/Matamaros invested in huge fringe area TV
antenna arrays and the latest 4-IF low-noise TV sets. And as far south as
Belize and Merida, these 'TV DXers' knew when spring arrived because
suddenly one evening KGUL-11 from Galveston would snuff out the snow and be
on their screens rock solid; for six hours, six days.

By mid to late March, every year, folks along the Gulf Coast were
experiencing the same kind of distant reception; Florida to Texas, northern
Louisiana to South Texas. By mid-April this day-after-day high pressure
ducting moved slowly eastward and slightly north; now it was Cuban TV into
South Carolina, mid-Florida coast to North Carolina. For the 11 years I was
VP5D I could count on 500-900 mile reception morning after morning, day
after day, from anyplace from North Carolina down to Cuba. On occasions, the
end of the GOM season would lap over with the now off the east coast period
and Texas VHF and UHF stations (out to 1,700 miles) would be logged in VP5.
By early to mid-May the GOM stuff pretty much disappears but the 'ducting
bubble' does not; it moves slightly north and eastward. It would be this
particular bubble that provided me with the now legendary 'opening' of May
9-10, 1989.

By mid-May the 'Gulf Coast High' has become the start of 'The Atlantic High'
or 'Bermuda High' which is by late May a characteristic of the Atlantic
Ocean region from say Cape Hatteras east to - well, sometimes as far as the
Azores and even rarer occasions the coast of Portugal.

Living in VP5 with the appropriate equipment and skills, I during mid-April
to late May often experienced bone crushing signals from Puerto Rico, west
to Cuba and south Florida, south even to the coastal areas of Venezuela and
Colombia. The 'ducting high' was alive and well although I lived, literally,
at sea level.

It is as this annual 'high' drifts slowly northward that we build our
expectations for a trans-atlantic crossing on 144 (or even 432) MHz. Now, if
my 'theory' about 'elevated-west end, near-sea-level east end' is correct,
what does that say about where to be to take advantage of this annual
natural occurrence?

Cape Hatteras (to Cork, Ireland - 3,423 miles; Honolulu to LA is 2,563)) is
the wrong place to be; on the west end. On the other hand, if height equals
getting into the duct' there are locations inside of Puerto Rico (San Juan
is 2,296m to Terceira in the Azores) or The Dominican Republic (Santo
Domingo which you would not select is 1,991 miles to Terceira) where
mountainous locations at heights from sea level to 4357 feet are available
(10,417 in the DR). Remember: The Brendan Trophy requires a 144 (+) 2-way
contact between North America and Europe (PR and DR qualify as NA; Azores
apparently do as Europe).

So now consider what happens to 'The Atlantic High' as May turns into June
and then July. It does not keep moving north (dragging the duct potential
with it); it stagnates sometime in mid to late June and then shuts down, or,
settles as a north by south high sitting between southern UK and the Canary
Islands. When I visited CU3/Terceira in Azores for nearly a month in (June)
1992 (yes - there was a purpose!), and met and spent many hours with the
'official meteorologist' at the US AFB (Lajes Field) there, we went through
a twenty year collection of June-July archived weather maps covering the
region from the east coast of the US to Portugal, going right over the top
of Terceira. He was a quick study and with his assistance we pinned down
days (not many but some) most years when a 'duct coupled' transmitter along
the eastern seaboard of the United States would be 'on the deck - at sea
level' - at Lajes Field. This was 'Basic Tropo Ducting 101A' and far from
difficult to interpret. Remember - it was late in the 50s (or so) when a W6
licensed ham living on Lajes Field found two days of high quality FM band
reception from the northeastern USA on his table top radio.

What is suspected but not verified. #1 - the further north in latitude one
is or goes to attempt to cross the Atlantic, the smaller the odds. Not only
does the 'Atlantic High' not extend very far north but even in the
summertime the disruption to ducting (squall lines, unsettled weather,
however localized) is present much of the time. It takes very little to
tear-a-duct asunder - just an updraft below originating from crossing over a
land mass area and bingo - the duct is broken. #2 - at some point between
early June and early July, the ducting capabilities swing from east-west to
north by south. It is my theory there is a transition period here, during
which a properly situated station at a duct-accessible location in Puerto
Rico or the DR would have access to a similar station in the Azores (Santa
Maria may actually be a better choice than Terceira and it is closer by a
couple of hundred miles to PR/DR).

Getting even to the Azores, the most likely spot for Europe, from any part
of North America is problematic - setting aside the FM band reception at
Lajes Field from Boston (2296m). Returning to Fernando's pioneering work in
Monterey, when he was intercepting UHF TV from stations in North and South
Carolina and Virginia, relatively low power stations using 600 foot towers
were loud and clear while full 5 megawatt stations almost adjacent to the
600 footers on 1,000 foot + towers were simply not there. Which only
substantiates if you are 'in the duct' it is clear sailing; if you are
outside - well, even K6MYC at-elevation above Fresno has his annual problems
with KH6 and as we all know nobody but nobody has more two meter ERP than
Mick.

The answer to the conundrum is 'find the duct and be there.' There is no
gray area here. And it applies to both ends although if we buy my
'high-west/low east' suggestion, it becomes less complex. Ideally, the
distance should be as short as possible - elevated west and lower east. At
the same time, if the ducting is 'high' one might need to be 'up east' as
well (Terceira has many elevations easily reached to 2044 feet msl). The
west end - well, yes KH6 has been worked from sea level at both ends but it
is rare and hard to build a plan around. Fernando with his TV and FM DXing
skills never (NEVER) found a long haul duct opening where he could descend
to near sea-level and still hold ducting signals. This of course is not very
encouraging to seashore located two meter serious operators hoping to be
'first to cross.' A kilowatt into no duct is -60 dB no matter how you
measure it on Terceira (or Cork or wherever). Miami to Terceira is 3877
miles; Habana 4065 (although there are some 'very attractive' mountain sides
in Cuba). The further back you are from the coast, even with elevation (such
as in New Hampshire), the more likely the last ten-50 miles to you will have
enough disturbed air patterns to shut down a duct. I say that knowing full
well I did work New Hampshire from VP5D on May 9, 1989; but - this was an
essentially north-south path, not east-west.

In conclusion, the west end is well populated while the eastern end is not.
If the Azores is the best place to be (2467 miles from NYC; compare to
LA-Honolulu 2563m), and there is no difficulty with the Brenden Trophy's
interpretation of 'The Continental Shelf' description of where Europe
'ends,' that is where I would be; actually on the island of Flores, the
western most of the Azores (2078m from Boston). All of which is best left to
another time. (K6EDX/ZL4AAA)




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.81/2524 - Release Date: 11/24/09 
14:37:00


From k1whs at metrocast.net  Wed Nov 25 22:55:39 2009
From: k1whs at metrocast.net (David Olean)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:55:39 -0000
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!
References: <002b01ca6d4e$78c280d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <0c5801ca6e4c$52e1cca0$6a01a8c0@DGL28221>

Hi Bob,
    I was a charter subscriber to VHF Horizons. I still have all the
issues!! I even built up a 7788 144 MHz converter.  When you worked all the
DX in New England in 1989, I was not at home here in Maine, and missed the
fun.
    I would like to have a remote internet connected 144 MHz receiver
somewhere on the Azores. It would provide a stimulus for people to try the
path with instant feedback. The next thing is for a real human to be there
on the island, and ready to make the QSO!

73
Dave Olean K1WHS

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Cooper" <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: <transatlantic at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:38 PM
Subject: [TransAtlantic] New participant - I think!


> As an introduction to members of this group, I am licensed presently as
> ZL4AAA and K6EDX, hold 6 meter WAS #21 (K6EDX) and #278 (W5KHT). Operated
> as VP5D (49 states less Alaska but WAC several times); 26 states on 2
> meters from VP5 and hold one end of 'East Coast' 432 distance record. From
> ZL4AAA 40 6M states and WAC including VU2 long path across Africa,
> Atlantic, SA, Pacific (SSB and CW several times). Wrote QST Microwave
> Column in 80-81, Radio Electronics TV and FM DX column 1956-1961;
> publisher DXing Horizons and many more thereafter. Moved from VP5 to ZL1
> (despite the ZL4 call) 1990, operate only cable TV system in NZ and a
> regional FM radio network of 3 stations. Founded American Ionospheric
> Propagation Association - AIPA (try saying that without taking a breath!)
> 1954 and created world's first TV-FM DX monthly printed bulletin. Have
> authored 44 books, several thousand magazine articles, well past 30
> million words in print (i.e. VHF Horizons, Television Horizons, Commun
> ications Horizons, CATJ - Community Antenna Television Journal, CSD -
> Coop's Satellite Digest, SF - SatFACTS Monthly and this barely scratches
> the surface); enough, even for me! At almost 72 years of age pride is no
> longer an issue. Went to school with Mike (K6MYC) who remains a close
> friend, was doing 10 GHz in 1974 when it was still a Gunnplexer issue.
>
> VHF-UHF wave propagation? Covering the world of TV (and FM) DX as I have
> from 1956 onward, have been exposed to untold thousands of reports
> including lengthy exchanges with those enthusiasts. And have several
> strong opinions based upon this data base concerning what it will take to
> claim the Irish trophy. Two quick examples: KH6 to XE/W6/W7 is
> illustrative. As was seminal work done by a TV DXer in the mountains above
> Monterey (Mexico) a decade ago; leading to a brash statement: Large/huge
> high pressure areas bearing the potential for exceptional distance ducting
> are more easily understood if you closely study the physical location of
> each end - whether it is transmitter west end - receiver east end or vice
> versa (the two are not always reversible). In well over 50% of all
> KH6-mainland contacts or reports, the west end is elevation-high and the
> east end is elevation-low (even down to sea level). A reminder: W6NLZ and
> KH6UK were sent on their quest because Honolulu-SFO planes d
> uring the summer months frequently found the KH6 end 121 MHz signals
> overpowering the California signals as they dropped for the SFO runway and
> were between 800 and 1,200 feet. Fernando in Monterey had almost identical
> experiences logging several hundred UHF TV stations from essentially the
> entire east coast but only as far north as North Carolina - distances
> pushing 1,700 miles. Then there is the legendary observation by a W6 ham
> stationed on Terceira (Azores; Lajes Field) in the late 50s (or so the
> story goes); two solid days of high quality FM band reception from
> approximately Maryland to Maine using a very basic table-top FM radio
> connected to dipole in his near-sea- level quarters. And these are the tip
> of this particular berg. Repeating the to-me most obvious similarity in
> the reports: Within a large high pressure dome capable of layered ducting,
> the west end duct elevation tends to be 'high' while the east end gets
> right down to the deck a high percentage of the time.
>  No, not 100 but easily 50% and possibly as high as 70%.
>
> What this suggests, at least to me, is we begin our quest by searching out
> a suitable elevated western end launch site as well as a near-deck east
> end receptor QTH. If that suggests being at or near the water at
> essentially sea-level along the US east coast might not be where you
> should be - well, that's what I am saying. Also recall W6NLZ may have been
> properly located in the Palos Verdes Hills (~600') but Tommy (UK) was
> elevation-restricted (I believe) based upon how long it took for them to
> make it work (both ends were superbly equipped, capable of horizon-set EME
> by today's standards - whereas subsequently a 5-watt handheld to a 5
> element yagi at sea level has worked to KH6); had he been a couple of K
> feet higher - well, another story. Alternatives? Another day. 73, Bob
> Cooper K6EDX et al
>
> ...
> ______________________________________________________________
> TransAtlantic mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From skyking at clear.net.nz  Thu Nov 26 15:45:26 2009
From: skyking at clear.net.nz (Bob Cooper)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:45:26 +1300
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post
Message-ID: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>

There are four terrestrial ways to connect W/K with Europe on 2 (or heaven forbid - 432); tropospheric, E-layer meteor, E layer sporadic E and aurora. One at a time. Tropospheric is the 'clean' way and it requires a maximum effort on both ends. But once done - it is done and the Brenden Trophy is clearly achieved. E-layer meteor is so simple as to defy any serious consideration - subject to a ruling by the Irish folk overseeing the Brenden Trophy; we'll return to this. E-layer sporadic E is more of a challenge but hardly outside of the realm of possibility. During the 2009 Es season a FM DXer of skill in northern Ireland logged, recorded and verified numerous USA stations in the 100 MHz range including one in Alabama. Of course 100 megs is not 144 but my how close we might be especially if the NA end was in Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. We'll also return there. Aurora? Gene Zimmerman is self-convinced the first 'QSO' could be between (northern) VE4 and someplace such as Sweden through the Auroral curtain. Certainly possible, as TV DX reports dating back to at least 1959 would verify (nobody but me perhaps remembers the hams and TV DXers on an ice flow in the Arctic in that era; TF3). What concerns me here is that VE4MA is the logical 'west end' overlooking the obvious; who will be the 'east end?' and 'MA' is not far enough north, in my mind, to make it work properly (he could but then - why has he not already done it?). Perhaps a VE8 would be a better shot. And then - there is the 'minor' problem of a non-starting new solar cycle.

Which returns us to E-layer meteor. Here is a shocker: From the airport at St Johns (Newfoundland - clearly NA) to the town of Santa Cruz das Flores on the island of Flores, the (almost) western most island in the Azores, is 1,212 miles; easily within meteor range. If the managers of the Brenden Trophy have no difficulty accepting the Azores (and including the island of Flores; it is CU8) being within the 'continental shelf' criteria of the trophy's rules then someone at St Johns and someone else at Santa Cruz das Flores on Flores - 1,212 miles - could wrap up the trophy during the 2010 Perseids; like shooting ducks in a pond. My own personal opinion is "this is not what the trophy is all about" although, subject to a ruling from the Irish (which neither Gene Zimmerman nor I have been able to obtain), this might fit their own vision here. So let's rule out this one, just for its "cleverness" and "so what is the big deal here?" baseline. (A plane trip from Boston to the Azores is weekly low-budget stuff and while that does not put you on Flores, you are close enough for local transport). Let us assume, even if you did this and actually were awarded one end of the Brenden Trophy, this is not the final quarter in the game (the St Johns, Newfoundland end of the circuit is hardly worth discussion).

However, once we "see" how close two stations could be (1,212 miles) it begins to suggest normal 144 Es and possibly tropospheric connection between the two water separated continents. The history of intense Es between two is sketchy although what we do know from TA Es is mostly favorable for this path. A skilled FM DXer in northern Ireland has experienced typically one or as many as three double/even triple hop 100 MHz openings to the VE1, W1, 2 and 4 areas during recent summers - distances in the 2,000 - 4000 mile range as deeply into W4 as central Alabama (the audio tapes available on web are quite exciting). Expecting even Newfoundland to northern Ireland on 144 MHz EE (roughly 1,995 miles) could be a long wait and if either end is not monitoring closely, well - perhaps in another ten years it will happen again. The 1,212 mile Flores path looks better all of the time.

And tropospheric on the same 1,212 path? Clearly doable although the Newfoundland end is well into the 'cluttered summer weather' zone suggesting two things to me; during the transitional time frame of late May to mid/late-June (before the high becomes too well anchored in the mid-ocean area) is one possibility. The other is related to hurricanes. An intense storm moving northward with Bermuda as a target creates sharply defined moisture (and temperature) gradients and TV/FM DXers have for decades been involved in Nova Scotia to Florida openings as a well placed 'eye' tracks north. What is totally unknown is whether these associated ducts are as prolific on the northern and eastern side of the storm as they definitely are on the western edge. 

There are many alert systems in place, not the least of which is the WTFDA (TV and FM DXer) 'message board' providing near-real time reports of what is being heard (or seen), by whom and where. There are also lists available of essentially all of the European FM radio stations - with TR power and other essential information. Of note here: even if your local FM band is overloaded, a number of high power European stations operate below 88.0 where unless you happen to live where VHF channel 6 is still functional, you have clear sailing (using for example the recently released extraordinary Sony XDR tuner or full receiver - you can actually be on [say] 99.1 and listen to white noise immediately adjacent to [say] 50kw on 99.3 just down the street). Terceira FM stations are propagation indicators - whether EE or tropo. Located on a significant elevation above the western side town of Santa Barbara, 3300+ feet at the tower base, are 90.5 (22kW), 101.1 (only 400 watts; Radio Club de Angra) and 104.4 (Radio Horizonte; 1kW). The communications central for this island is paved road to the top (called Serra do Cum). There are no (known) FM stations on Flores but west of Terceira and certainly 'in the way' for any direct ducting are Sao Jorge (FM 107.2), and Faial/Pico (FM 100.2). 90.5 on EE seems reasonable and at 22 kW and the 3300+ antenna height it (Antena 1) should get out very well. 

And this takes us where? Terceira works - we have history on that at a sea-level location which even an optimistic person would find 'unlikely.' Detail of which FM stations, at what height 'asl/msl' is lost but I believe there would be a quickly discernible 'pattern' if we knew station by station what was received at Lajes Field. Terceira also has a paved parking lot at around 3300/3400 feet ASL (my XYL and I have been there) and by driving the roadway down to Santa Barbara, you can select a height 'asl/msl' to suit your objective. One clue in all of this will be the FM broadcast band (86-108 MHz), pre-loaded with the previously disclosed Terceira frequencies as well as those for Pico/Faial. Unfortunately, 90.5 is 3400'+ and if my 'high west-low east theory' is correct, 3,400+' on the east end could easily be above the duct. Just think K6MYC!

There remains the unanswered question as to whether 'the Azores' does in fact satisfy the Irish Brenden Trophy definition of Europe. And a subset to that. 'Some' sources suggest Flores and Corvo (the two most westerly islands in the Azores - Flores makes 'mechanical sense' while Corvo does not) are in fact 'connected to the 'North American Plate' which is a physical description of whether they are part of Europe or North America. If the Irish were to rule against Flores (and Corvo), at 1,212 and 1207 miles respectively from St Johns, that leaves Terceira and Faial plus Pico as eastern sites (adding roughly 150 miles to the 1,212 Flores - St Johns path).

Clearly Terceira is continental-shelf-Europe and while 1,417 miles from St Johns, the 'paved parking lot' of some size at 3,400 or so feet ASL makes excellent sense; almost. The site is overloaded with FM band (previously cited), TV (band 3 - 174-216 MHz) and an undefined number of 150-170 MHz repeaters. Think Mount Wilson or the Empire State Building, on a lesser scale, and you have the 'images' these will create in a super-sensitive 144.200 MHz receiver system. On the other hand, being 'in the parking lot' at tower-base is probably not where you should be anyhow (remember - ducting - 'high west, lower east'); and the winding roadway down to the near-coastal town of Santa Barbara rapidly gets you out of the near field radiation problems there. I know - I have done it. 

Locations on Faial and Pico have mechanical problems; Faial, for example, while it gets to 3,420' ASL, is without a navigable road on the west side that allows up-down testing. Pico is marginally - but not much - better. It all looks nice 'on a map' until you arrive and learn you cannot 'get there from here.' In other words, lacking suitable western-island vantage point receiving location (east end of the path), none of what is there makes much sense. Except; except that if it gets in the way (as Faial's 3,420' might do) with a duct that is trying to reach the US mainland (a duct at 600' ASL running into the 3,420' elevation on Faial would be dead, instantly).

A 'remote receiver' at Santa Barbara, Terceira (yes - K1WHS) makes some sense if there is telecoms to support it coming back to the states. A properly programmed Sony XDR with scan tune and some carefully selected FM band channels (not to conflict with the 'local' Azores channels) could be half the 'test;' the other half is anyone who has the ability to monitor Azorean FM channels (such as 90.5) should be equipped to do so 24 x 7 from at least mid-May to mid-August. And a reminder aside: The Irish need to sit down and tell us 'The Azores DO count as Europe - for the Brenden Trophy ' - otherwise we are back to a far longer and less likely set of paths. (K6EDX/ZL4AAA) 


From map at mapinternet.com  Fri Nov 27 11:34:31 2009
From: map at mapinternet.com (Mark Casey)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:34:31 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] high-west, low-east theory
Message-ID: <F738BC156BC44E89B46A7EC56280257F@CASEYPC>

Hello Bob,

Do you think that the high-west, low-east theory might work in the southern hemisphere also, at the similar latitudes as Hawaii-Cal, but in reverse (high-east, low-west)?

73
Mark K1MAP

From k4mhz at aol.com  Fri Nov 27 19:38:56 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post
In-Reply-To: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <8CC3DDA4D273E39-9020-224AC@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>


Hmmmm.....
lots of good discussion about breaking down the options...

A good part of it is trying to compare the KH6 to W6 path... not sure if it is a reference for the Atlantic path...
 
A few comments I align with is:
1. Aurora over the pole
2. MS

Tropo, yes, but not as experienced on the pacific side.

After extensive look at the VE1 to CU, G or CT path, the Tropo conditions are there but minimal . Not zero but low probability.  The very cold Labrador current is a killer with low evaporation refraction conditions on top of the cold water.

I am looking at the characteristics off of Mauritania on the African coast as insight with oceanographic and atmospheric data from NOAA overlayed on Hepburn Reports. Take a look at the Hepburn reports. When i look at the NOAA Sea water evaporation for the region, it is a rough overlay of the Hepburn reports most repetitive favorable conditions...

>From my place on Hatteras Island. NC (FM25) Africa is a much higher probability then Europe based on this data. Europe is still feasable, but may be multimode propogation with a narrow window to complete a QSO.

lets keep the thinking going...it is a good test of the options...
Mark
K4MHZ 




I have some preliminary work on a overlay of the Hepburn reports on that indicate for me in Hatteras, there is a better path to Africas Nauritania, Senegal, Liberia Cape Verde Islands and possibly the canary to the North. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cooper <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:45 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post


There are four terrestrial ways to connect W/K with Europe on 2 (or heaven 
orbid - 432); tropospheric, E-layer meteor, E layer sporadic E and aurora. One 
t a time. Tropospheric is the 'clean' way and it requires a maximum effort on 
oth ends. But once done - it is done and the Brenden Trophy is clearly 
chieved. E-layer meteor is so simple as to defy any serious consideration - 
ubject to a ruling by the Irish folk overseeing the Brenden Trophy; we'll 
eturn to this. E-layer sporadic E is more of a challenge but hardly outside of 
he realm of possibility. During the 2009 Es season a FM DXer of skill in 
orthern Ireland logged, recorded and verified numerous USA stations in the 100 
Hz range including one in Alabama. Of course 100 megs is not 144 but my how 
lose we might be especially if the NA end was in Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. 
e'll also return there. Aurora? Gene Zimmerman is self-convinced the first 
QSO' could be between (northern) VE4 and someplace such as Sweden
 through the Auroral curtain. Certainly possible, as TV DX reports dating back 
o at least 1959 would verify (nobody but me perhaps remembers the hams and TV 
Xers on an ice flow in the Arctic in that era; TF3). What concerns me here is 
hat VE4MA is the logical 'west end' overlooking the obvious; who will be the 
east end?' and 'MA' is not far enough north, in my mind, to make it work 
roperly (he could but then - why has he not already done it?). Perhaps a VE8 
ould be a better shot. And then - there is the 'minor' problem of a 
on-starting new solar cycle.
Which returns us to E-layer meteor. Here is a shocker: From the airport at St 
ohns (Newfoundland - clearly NA) to the town of Santa Cruz das Flores on the 
sland of Flores, the (almost) western most island in the Azores, is 1,212 
iles; easily within meteor range. If the managers of the Brenden Trophy have no 
ifficulty accepting the Azores (and including the island of Flores; it is CU8) 
eing within the 'continental shelf' criteria of the trophy's rules then someone 
t St Johns and someone else at Santa Cruz das Flores on Flores - 1,212 miles - 
ould wrap up the trophy during the 2010 Perseids; like shooting ducks in a 
ond. My own personal opinion is "this is not what the trophy is all about" 
lthough, subject to a ruling from the Irish (which neither Gene Zimmerman nor I 
ave been able to obtain), this might fit their own vision here. So let's rule 
ut this one, just for its "cleverness" and "so what is the big deal here?" 
aseline. (A plane trip from Boston to the Azores
 is weekly low-budget stuff and while that does not put you on Flores, you are 
lose enough for local transport). Let us assume, even if you did this and 
ctually were awarded one end of the Brenden Trophy, this is not the final 
uarter in the game (the St Johns, Newfoundland end of the circuit is hardly 
orth discussion).
However, once we "see" how close two stations could be (1,212 miles) it begins 
o suggest normal 144 Es and possibly tropospheric connection between the two 
ater separated continents. The history of intense Es between two is sketchy 
lthough what we do know from TA Es is mostly favorable for this path. A skilled 
M DXer in northern Ireland has experienced typically one or as many as three 
ouble/even triple hop 100 MHz openings to the VE1, W1, 2 and 4 areas during 
ecent summers - distances in the 2,000 - 4000 mile range as deeply into W4 as 
entral Alabama (the audio tapes available on web are quite exciting). Expecting 
ven Newfoundland to northern Ireland on 144 MHz EE (roughly 1,995 miles) could 
e a long wait and if either end is not monitoring closely, well - perhaps in 
nother ten years it will happen again. The 1,212 mile Flores path looks better 
ll of the time.
And tropospheric on the same 1,212 path? Clearly doable although the 
ewfoundland end is well into the 'cluttered summer weather' zone suggesting two 
hings to me; during the transitional time frame of late May to mid/late-June 
before the high becomes too well anchored in the mid-ocean area) is one 
ossibility. The other is related to hurricanes. An intense storm moving 
orthward with Bermuda as a target creates sharply defined moisture (and 
emperature) gradients and TV/FM DXers have for decades been involved in Nova 
cotia to Florida openings as a well placed 'eye' tracks north. What is totally 
nknown is whether these associated ducts are as prolific on the northern and 
astern side of the storm as they definitely are on the western edge. 
There are many alert systems in place, not the least of which is the WTFDA (TV 
nd FM DXer) 'message board' providing near-real time reports of what is being 
eard (or seen), by whom and where. There are also lists available of 
ssentially all of the European FM radio stations - with TR power and other 
ssential information. Of note here: even if your local FM band is overloaded, a 
umber of high power European stations operate below 88.0 where unless you 
appen to live where VHF channel 6 is still functional, you have clear sailing 
using for example the recently released extraordinary Sony XDR tuner or full 
eceiver - you can actually be on [say] 99.1 and listen to white noise 
mmediately adjacent to [say] 50kw on 99.3 just down the street). Terceira FM 
tations are propagation indicators - whether EE or tropo. Located on a 
ignificant elevation above the western side town of Santa Barbara, 3300+ feet 
t the tower base, are 90.5 (22kW), 101.1 (only 400 watts; Radio Club de 
Angra) and 104.4 (Radio Horizonte; 1kW). The communications central for this 
sland is paved road to the top (called Serra do Cum). There are no (known) FM 
tations on Flores but west of Terceira and certainly 'in the way' for any 
irect ducting are Sao Jorge (FM 107.2), and Faial/Pico (FM 100.2). 90.5 on EE 
eems reasonable and at 22 kW and the 3300+ antenna height it (Antena 1) should 
et out very well. 
And this takes us where? Terceira works - we have history on that at a sea-level 
ocation which even an optimistic person would find 'unlikely.' Detail of which 
M stations, at what height 'asl/msl' is lost but I believe there would be a 
uickly discernible 'pattern' if we knew station by station what was received at 
ajes Field. Terceira also has a paved parking lot at around 3300/3400 feet ASL 
my XYL and I have been there) and by driving the roadway down to Santa Barbara, 
ou can select a height 'asl/msl' to suit your objective. One clue in all of 
his will be the FM broadcast band (86-108 MHz), pre-loaded with the previously 
isclosed Terceira frequencies as well as those for Pico/Faial. Unfortunately, 
0.5 is 3400'+ and if my 'high west-low east theory' is correct, 3,400+' on the 
ast end could easily be above the duct. Just think K6MYC!
There remains the unanswered question as to whether 'the Azores' does in fact 
atisfy the Irish Brenden Trophy definition of Europe. And a subset to that. 
Some' sources suggest Flores and Corvo (the two most westerly islands in the 
zores - Flores makes 'mechanical sense' while Corvo does not) are in fact 
connected to the 'North American Plate' which is a physical description of 
hether they are part of Europe or North America. If the Irish were to rule 
gainst Flores (and Corvo), at 1,212 and 1207 miles respectively from St Johns, 
hat leaves Terceira and Faial plus Pico as eastern sites (adding roughly 150 
iles to the 1,212 Flores - St Johns path).
Clearly Terceira is continental-shelf-Europe and while 1,417 miles from St 
ohns, the 'paved parking lot' of some size at 3,400 or so feet ASL makes 
xcellent sense; almost. The site is overloaded with FM band (previously cited), 
V (band 3 - 174-216 MHz) and an undefined number of 150-170 MHz repeaters. 
hink Mount Wilson or the Empire State Building, on a lesser scale, and you have 
he 'images' these will create in a super-sensitive 144.200 MHz receiver system. 
n the other hand, being 'in the parking lot' at tower-base is probably not 
here you should be anyhow (remember - ducting - 'high west, lower east'); and 
he winding roadway down to the near-coastal town of Santa Barbara rapidly gets 
ou out of the near field radiation problems there. I know - I have done it. 
Locations on Faial and Pico have mechanical problems; Faial, for example, while 
t gets to 3,420' ASL, is without a navigable road on the west side that allows 
p-down testing. Pico is marginally - but not much - better. It all looks nice 
on a map' until you arrive and learn you cannot 'get there from here.' In other 
ords, lacking suitable western-island vantage point receiving location (east 
nd of the path), none of what is there makes much sense. Except; except that if 
t gets in the way (as Faial's 3,420' might do) with a duct that is trying to 
each the US mainland (a duct at 600' ASL running into the 3,420' elevation on 
aial would be dead, instantly).
A 'remote receiver' at Santa Barbara, Terceira (yes - K1WHS) makes some sense if 
here is telecoms to support it coming back to the states. A properly programmed 
ony XDR with scan tune and some carefully selected FM band channels (not to 
onflict with the 'local' Azores channels) could be half the 'test;' the other 
alf is anyone who has the ability to monitor Azorean FM channels (such as 90.5) 
hould be equipped to do so 24 x 7 from at least mid-May to mid-August. And a 
eminder aside: The Irish need to sit down and tell us 'The Azores DO count as 
urope - for the Brenden Trophy ' - otherwise we are back to a far longer and 
ess likely set of paths. (K6EDX/ZL4AAA) 
______________________________________________________________
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From k4mhz at aol.com  Fri Nov 27 19:44:47 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post
In-Reply-To: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <8CC3DDB1EAC7D1E-9020-2256D@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>


Team
look at DUBUS 4/2007 cover...
looking at the G4LOH to D44TD path 4040km conditions and CT1HZE to 4X1UN 4008km...

I will call G4LOH to see his elevation and Joe/CT1HZE for data...
Mark
K4MHZ.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cooper <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2009 3:45 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post


There are four terrestrial ways to connect W/K with Europe on 2 (or heaven 
orbid - 432); tropospheric, E-layer meteor, E layer sporadic E and aurora. One 
t a time. Tropospheric is the 'clean' way and it requires a maximum effort on 
oth ends. But once done - it is done and the Brenden Trophy is clearly 
chieved. E-layer meteor is so simple as to defy any serious consideration - 
ubject to a ruling by the Irish folk overseeing the Brenden Trophy; we'll 
eturn to this. E-layer sporadic E is more of a challenge but hardly outside of 
he realm of possibility. During the 2009 Es season a FM DXer of skill in 
orthern Ireland logged, recorded and verified numerous USA stations in the 100 
Hz range including one in Alabama. Of course 100 megs is not 144 but my how 
lose we might be especially if the NA end was in Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. 
e'll also return there. Aurora? Gene Zimmerman is self-convinced the first 
QSO' could be between (northern) VE4 and someplace such as Sweden
 through the Auroral curtain. Certainly possible, as TV DX reports dating back 
o at least 1959 would verify (nobody but me perhaps remembers the hams and TV 
Xers on an ice flow in the Arctic in that era; TF3). What concerns me here is 
hat VE4MA is the logical 'west end' overlooking the obvious; who will be the 
east end?' and 'MA' is not far enough north, in my mind, to make it work 
roperly (he could but then - why has he not already done it?). Perhaps a VE8 
ould be a better shot. And then - there is the 'minor' problem of a 
on-starting new solar cycle.
Which returns us to E-layer meteor. Here is a shocker: From the airport at St 
ohns (Newfoundland - clearly NA) to the town of Santa Cruz das Flores on the 
sland of Flores, the (almost) western most island in the Azores, is 1,212 
iles; easily within meteor range. If the managers of the Brenden Trophy have no 
ifficulty accepting the Azores (and including the island of Flores; it is CU8) 
eing within the 'continental shelf' criteria of the trophy's rules then someone 
t St Johns and someone else at Santa Cruz das Flores on Flores - 1,212 miles - 
ould wrap up the trophy during the 2010 Perseids; like shooting ducks in a 
ond. My own personal opinion is "this is not what the trophy is all about" 
lthough, subject to a ruling from the Irish (which neither Gene Zimmerman nor I 
ave been able to obtain), this might fit their own vision here. So let's rule 
ut this one, just for its "cleverness" and "so what is the big deal here?" 
aseline. (A plane trip from Boston to the Azores
 is weekly low-budget stuff and while that does not put you on Flores, you are 
lose enough for local transport). Let us assume, even if you did this and 
ctually were awarded one end of the Brenden Trophy, this is not the final 
uarter in the game (the St Johns, Newfoundland end of the circuit is hardly 
orth discussion).
However, once we "see" how close two stations could be (1,212 miles) it begins 
o suggest normal 144 Es and possibly tropospheric connection between the two 
ater separated continents. The history of intense Es between two is sketchy 
lthough what we do know from TA Es is mostly favorable for this path. A skilled 
M DXer in northern Ireland has experienced typically one or as many as three 
ouble/even triple hop 100 MHz openings to the VE1, W1, 2 and 4 areas during 
ecent summers - distances in the 2,000 - 4000 mile range as deeply into W4 as 
entral Alabama (the audio tapes available on web are quite exciting). Expecting 
ven Newfoundland to northern Ireland on 144 MHz EE (roughly 1,995 miles) could 
e a long wait and if either end is not monitoring closely, well - perhaps in 
nother ten years it will happen again. The 1,212 mile Flores path looks better 
ll of the time.
And tropospheric on the same 1,212 path? Clearly doable although the 
ewfoundland end is well into the 'cluttered summer weather' zone suggesting two 
hings to me; during the transitional time frame of late May to mid/late-June 
before the high becomes too well anchored in the mid-ocean area) is one 
ossibility. The other is related to hurricanes. An intense storm moving 
orthward with Bermuda as a target creates sharply defined moisture (and 
emperature) gradients and TV/FM DXers have for decades been involved in Nova 
cotia to Florida openings as a well placed 'eye' tracks north. What is totally 
nknown is whether these associated ducts are as prolific on the northern and 
astern side of the storm as they definitely are on the western edge. 
There are many alert systems in place, not the least of which is the WTFDA (TV 
nd FM DXer) 'message board' providing near-real time reports of what is being 
eard (or seen), by whom and where. There are also lists available of 
ssentially all of the European FM radio stations - with TR power and other 
ssential information. Of note here: even if your local FM band is overloaded, a 
umber of high power European stations operate below 88.0 where unless you 
appen to live where VHF channel 6 is still functional, you have clear sailing 
using for example the recently released extraordinary Sony XDR tuner or full 
eceiver - you can actually be on [say] 99.1 and listen to white noise 
mmediately adjacent to [say] 50kw on 99.3 just down the street). Terceira FM 
tations are propagation indicators - whether EE or tropo. Located on a 
ignificant elevation above the western side town of Santa Barbara, 3300+ feet 
t the tower base, are 90.5 (22kW), 101.1 (only 400 watts; Radio Club de 
Angra) and 104.4 (Radio Horizonte; 1kW). The communications central for this 
sland is paved road to the top (called Serra do Cum). There are no (known) FM 
tations on Flores but west of Terceira and certainly 'in the way' for any 
irect ducting are Sao Jorge (FM 107.2), and Faial/Pico (FM 100.2). 90.5 on EE 
eems reasonable and at 22 kW and the 3300+ antenna height it (Antena 1) should 
et out very well. 
And this takes us where? Terceira works - we have history on that at a sea-level 
ocation which even an optimistic person would find 'unlikely.' Detail of which 
M stations, at what height 'asl/msl' is lost but I believe there would be a 
uickly discernible 'pattern' if we knew station by station what was received at 
ajes Field. Terceira also has a paved parking lot at around 3300/3400 feet ASL 
my XYL and I have been there) and by driving the roadway down to Santa Barbara, 
ou can select a height 'asl/msl' to suit your objective. One clue in all of 
his will be the FM broadcast band (86-108 MHz), pre-loaded with the previously 
isclosed Terceira frequencies as well as those for Pico/Faial. Unfortunately, 
0.5 is 3400'+ and if my 'high west-low east theory' is correct, 3,400+' on the 
ast end could easily be above the duct. Just think K6MYC!
There remains the unanswered question as to whether 'the Azores' does in fact 
atisfy the Irish Brenden Trophy definition of Europe. And a subset to that. 
Some' sources suggest Flores and Corvo (the two most westerly islands in the 
zores - Flores makes 'mechanical sense' while Corvo does not) are in fact 
connected to the 'North American Plate' which is a physical description of 
hether they are part of Europe or North America. If the Irish were to rule 
gainst Flores (and Corvo), at 1,212 and 1207 miles respectively from St Johns, 
hat leaves Terceira and Faial plus Pico as eastern sites (adding roughly 150 
iles to the 1,212 Flores - St Johns path).
Clearly Terceira is continental-shelf-Europe and while 1,417 miles from St 
ohns, the 'paved parking lot' of some size at 3,400 or so feet ASL makes 
xcellent sense; almost. The site is overloaded with FM band (previously cited), 
V (band 3 - 174-216 MHz) and an undefined number of 150-170 MHz repeaters. 
hink Mount Wilson or the Empire State Building, on a lesser scale, and you have 
he 'images' these will create in a super-sensitive 144.200 MHz receiver system. 
n the other hand, being 'in the parking lot' at tower-base is probably not 
here you should be anyhow (remember - ducting - 'high west, lower east'); and 
he winding roadway down to the near-coastal town of Santa Barbara rapidly gets 
ou out of the near field radiation problems there. I know - I have done it. 
Locations on Faial and Pico have mechanical problems; Faial, for example, while 
t gets to 3,420' ASL, is without a navigable road on the west side that allows 
p-down testing. Pico is marginally - but not much - better. It all looks nice 
on a map' until you arrive and learn you cannot 'get there from here.' In other 
ords, lacking suitable western-island vantage point receiving location (east 
nd of the path), none of what is there makes much sense. Except; except that if 
t gets in the way (as Faial's 3,420' might do) with a duct that is trying to 
each the US mainland (a duct at 600' ASL running into the 3,420' elevation on 
aial would be dead, instantly).
A 'remote receiver' at Santa Barbara, Terceira (yes - K1WHS) makes some sense if 
here is telecoms to support it coming back to the states. A properly programmed 
ony XDR with scan tune and some carefully selected FM band channels (not to 
onflict with the 'local' Azores channels) could be half the 'test;' the other 
alf is anyone who has the ability to monitor Azorean FM channels (such as 90.5) 
hould be equipped to do so 24 x 7 from at least mid-May to mid-August. And a 
eminder aside: The Irish need to sit down and tell us 'The Azores DO count as 
urope - for the Brenden Trophy ' - otherwise we are back to a far longer and 
ess likely set of paths. (K6EDX/ZL4AAA) 
______________________________________________________________
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From skyking at clear.net.nz  Fri Nov 27 21:51:05 2009
From: skyking at clear.net.nz (Bob Cooper)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:51:05 +1300
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Number corrections - Post # 2
Message-ID: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc>

My carelessness; in post #2, paragraph 8 distance from San Juan to Terceira is 3193, NOT 2296; distance from DR to same is 2908, NOT 1991; major errors! And in paragraph 12, elevations "easily reached" on Terceiria are 3300-3400 ASL, NOT 2044MSL as I posted. Sorry for confusion - blame it on being 72 years, km to miles, or stupidity! 73, Bob

From k4mhz at aol.com  Sat Nov 28 00:16:47 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Number corrections - Post # 2
In-Reply-To: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>








wow! do you sleep? good detail
Mark
K4MHZ

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Cooper <skyking at clear.net.nz>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2009 9:51 pm
Subject: [TransAtlantic] Number corrections - Post # 2


My carelessness; in post #2, paragraph 8 distance from San Juan to Terceira is 
193, NOT 2296; distance from DR to same is 2908, NOT 1991; major errors! And in 
aragraph 12, elevations "easily reached" on Terceiria are 3300-3400 ASL, NOT 
044MSL as I posted. Sorry for confusion - blame it on being 72 years, km to 
iles, or stupidity! 73, Bob
_____________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From funk-telegramm at t-online.de  Sat Nov 28 05:03:54 2009
From: funk-telegramm at t-online.de (J. Kraft)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:03:54 +0100
Subject: [TransAtlantic] =?iso-8859-15?q?de_CT1HZE?=
In-Reply-To: <8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>
References: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc>
	<8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>

Hi all,

first of all I am very happy to see that there is a lot of brainstorming
in NA
now about the final challenge on VHF, a 2m TA QSO.

Here in Europe we had this discussion for ages and it is still alive.

Several serious attempts for Tropo / Meteor QSOs between VO1 and EI
have been made in the past, and always a team from EU had to go to NA
as there was virtually no interest from the NA side at all.
For us Europeans this has been always the biggest problem:
The lack of active interested dedicated stations in favourable locations
on the NA side.
In Europe there are QRO EME level stations in fantastic location
available
for tests any time from the western countries like EI, G, GW, GM, F, EA1
and CT.
I personally have not found a single partner for 2m TA tests in the last
10
years untill K4MHZ N7BHC and WA1ZMS became interested just a few years
ago
and installed beacons. However, I am not too optimistic as all of them 
would need hours to get on the air if their beacons will be heard.
I don`t expect that a 2m TA opening will last longer than a few minutes.
I have made two 2m  Es QSOs over 4000km, one to 4X and one to UA,
both were 1 minute events.
VO1 is "ust" 3700km from me, but there is none and the beacon that has
been there
is off for many years now. Even worse it has been off for several years
and all EU thought
it was still on, but the keepers did not announce it.
My QTH in CT is 90m a.s.l., that is roughly 300 feet. and I can run 100
KW
ERP on 2m and I have a perfect take off all over the Atlantic Ocean.
I am hearing the 2m beacon from CU8 (Flores) on many days in the
summer via Es and Tropo, that is 2000km, so more than 50% of the path
already and almost in line to VO1. But again nobody in VO1
or even VE1 who I could test with. I know there is a VE1 now who is
on 2m EME but he showed no serious interest when I emailed him.
I have made many tests on 2m in the last years with KP4EIT and FM5CS 
when condx looked promising but no success yet.
>From all my 2m and 6m Es experience I would expect that the FM03, 04, 14
and 25 area 
should be a perfect area for Es propagation to Europe.

There are several quite well equipped stations qrv from CU for years
now:
CU7BC, CU8AO, CU3EQ, CU2JX and others.
CU3EQ is very interested in 2m DX and TA experiments.
CU8AO made experiments this August with VO1/DM8MM and heard
good bursts from him. CU8AO had no TX at that time and it would have
been
a first terrestrial 2m QSO between VE and CU only, as this path does not
qualify for the Brendan Trophy, of course......

The good news for NA is that a 2m beacon will be on air from CU7 (grid
HM58)
very soon with a yagi beaming to VE/VO1/W1
That is easy single hop Es distance to VO1.
The question is, who will listen from the NA side, especially from VO1?

After waiting 5 years for the licence another beacon will go on air
these days from EA8 with an omnidirectional antenna. 

I have studied Hepburn maps for hundreds of hours the last years.
I don`t see a very big chance for Tropo between VO1 and Europe
may be once in 20 years or so.
The most promising path I see is from CT/EA to the Caribbean, especially
the area of
FM, FG etc. But FM5CS is QRT and there was no one in the last years to
test with.

There have been confirmed Aurora-E receptions from GM to VO1 on 100 MHz
after strong 2m Aurora events in Europe. So this is a most likely chance
also
for 2m. There are dozens of stations qrv on 2m from GM, GI, EI and even
more from LA and SM
but again not a single from VO1.

BTW no EU FM BC stations are active below 88 MHz from western EU
countries,
there are a few left on 70 MHz from UA, LZ and YO but that is at least
one extra 2000km hop.

So, I am sorry for this not really structured list of my thoughts and
bits of information,
but I wanted to share this with you as I see that you need some input
from the EU side
There has been published a lot about this stuff as seen and experienced
from the European
side over the last years in DUBUS magazine.

73 and GL
Joe, DL8HCZ/CT1HZE































  




























From k4mhz at aol.com  Sat Nov 28 10:07:22 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:07:22 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE
In-Reply-To: <1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
References: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc><8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>
	<1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <8CC3E539EDC0B13-54B4-18D22@webmail-m002.sysops.aol.com>


Joe
Great overview, you saved me some chatter since we have been on the same path of thinking for a while...
I Have the DUBUS Magazines in front of me.. Do you know what G4LOH's elevation is as well as D44TD for their contact?


Also,  I would like to hear your thinking on the best window from FM25 to CU/CT1.  

Since our last talk,  I started planning gear fro 2010.  I have the Commander II amplifier fixed (I smoked it) then added additional air running 700w+ CW out, the 6 kw generator tuned up, Ic746 Pro and other items to include trailer with mast and rotator if necessary. I was looking at your data on CU opeings as a guide... any thoughts?

I am still looking at vertical polarization within 30m of the water surface that came up in research a few years ago...
It looked as though vertical was far superior to Horizontal where water vapor refraction was the medium to extend range to by 1000 km +,

Any feedback will be helpful..

good to hear you Joe!!...

Mark
K4MHZ   



-----Original Message-----
From: J. Kraft <funk-telegramm at t-online.de>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sat, Nov 28, 2009 5:03 am
Subject: Re: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE


Hi all,
first of all I am very happy to see that there is a lot of brainstorming
n NA
ow about the final challenge on VHF, a 2m TA QSO.
Here in Europe we had this discussion for ages and it is still alive.
Several serious attempts for Tropo / Meteor QSOs between VO1 and EI
ave been made in the past, and always a team from EU had to go to NA
s there was virtually no interest from the NA side at all.
or us Europeans this has been always the biggest problem:
he lack of active interested dedicated stations in favourable locations
n the NA side.
n Europe there are QRO EME level stations in fantastic location
vailable
or tests any time from the western countries like EI, G, GW, GM, F, EA1
nd CT.
 personally have not found a single partner for 2m TA tests in the last
0
ears untill K4MHZ N7BHC and WA1ZMS became interested just a few years
go
nd installed beacons. However, I am not too optimistic as all of them 
ould need hours to get on the air if their beacons will be heard.
 don`t expect that a 2m TA opening will last longer than a few minutes.
 have made two 2m  Es QSOs over 4000km, one to 4X and one to UA,
oth were 1 minute events.
O1 is "ust" 3700km from me, but there is none and the beacon that has
een there
s off for many years now. Even worse it has been off for several years
nd all EU thought
t was still on, but the keepers did not announce it.
y QTH in CT is 90m a.s.l., that is roughly 300 feet. and I can run 100
W
RP on 2m and I have a perfect take off all over the Atlantic Ocean.
 am hearing the 2m beacon from CU8 (Flores) on many days in the
ummer via Es and Tropo, that is 2000km, so more than 50% of the path
lready and almost in line to VO1. But again nobody in VO1
r even VE1 who I could test with. I know there is a VE1 now who is
n 2m EME but he showed no serious interest when I emailed him.
 have made many tests on 2m in the last years with KP4EIT and FM5CS 
hen condx looked promising but no success yet.
>From all my 2m and 6m Es experience I would expect that the FM03, 04, 14
nd 25 area 
hould be a perfect area for Es propagation to Europe.
There are several quite well equipped stations qrv from CU for years
ow:
U7BC, CU8AO, CU3EQ, CU2JX and others.
U3EQ is very interested in 2m DX and TA experiments.
U8AO made experiments this August with VO1/DM8MM and heard
ood bursts from him. CU8AO had no TX at that time and it would have
een
 first terrestrial 2m QSO between VE and CU only, as this path does not
ualify for the Brendan Trophy, of course......
The good news for NA is that a 2m beacon will be on air from CU7 (grid
M58)
ery soon with a yagi beaming to VE/VO1/W1
hat is easy single hop Es distance to VO1.
he question is, who will listen from the NA side, especially from VO1?
After waiting 5 years for the licence another beacon will go on air
hese days from EA8 with an omnidirectional antenna. 
I have studied Hepburn maps for hundreds of hours the last years.
 don`t see a very big chance for Tropo between VO1 and Europe
ay be once in 20 years or so.
he most promising path I see is from CT/EA to the Caribbean, especially
he area of
M, FG etc. But FM5CS is QRT and there was no one in the last years to
est with.
There have been confirmed Aurora-E receptions from GM to VO1 on 100 MHz
fter strong 2m Aurora events in Europe. So this is a most likely chance
lso
or 2m. There are dozens of stations qrv on 2m from GM, GI, EI and even
ore from LA and SM
ut again not a single from VO1.
BTW no EU FM BC stations are active below 88 MHz from western EU
ountries,
here are a few left on 70 MHz from UA, LZ and YO but that is at least
ne extra 2000km hop.
So, I am sorry for this not really structured list of my thoughts and
its of information,
ut I wanted to share this with you as I see that you need some input
rom the EU side
here has been published a lot about this stuff as seen and experienced
rom the European
ide over the last years in DUBUS magazine.
73 and GL
oe, DL8HCZ/CT1HZE















  













______________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From k4mhz at aol.com  Sat Nov 28 10:16:07 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 10:16:07 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE
In-Reply-To: <1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
References: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc><8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>
	<1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <8CC3E54D7B8E722-54B4-18E8F@webmail-m002.sysops.aol.com>


Joe+
Headed to K4MHZ/b in 1 week to check antennas, power out and frequency. Winds blew at 120 km/hr +  in early November for  2 days...
Hatteras Island has almost daily 30-60 km/hr in the winter. 

73
Mark
K4MHZ


-----Original Message-----
From: J. Kraft <funk-telegramm at t-online.de>
To: transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Sat, Nov 28, 2009 5:03 am
Subject: Re: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE


Hi all,
first of all I am very happy to see that there is a lot of brainstorming
n NA
ow about the final challenge on VHF, a 2m TA QSO.
Here in Europe we had this discussion for ages and it is still alive.
Several serious attempts for Tropo / Meteor QSOs between VO1 and EI
ave been made in the past, and always a team from EU had to go to NA
s there was virtually no interest from the NA side at all.
or us Europeans this has been always the biggest problem:
he lack of active interested dedicated stations in favourable locations
n the NA side.
n Europe there are QRO EME level stations in fantastic location
vailable
or tests any time from the western countries like EI, G, GW, GM, F, EA1
nd CT.
 personally have not found a single partner for 2m TA tests in the last
0
ears untill K4MHZ N7BHC and WA1ZMS became interested just a few years
go
nd installed beacons. However, I am not too optimistic as all of them 
ould need hours to get on the air if their beacons will be heard.
 don`t expect that a 2m TA opening will last longer than a few minutes.
 have made two 2m  Es QSOs over 4000km, one to 4X and one to UA,
oth were 1 minute events.
O1 is "ust" 3700km from me, but there is none and the beacon that has
een there
s off for many years now. Even worse it has been off for several years
nd all EU thought
t was still on, but the keepers did not announce it.
y QTH in CT is 90m a.s.l., that is roughly 300 feet. and I can run 100
W
RP on 2m and I have a perfect take off all over the Atlantic Ocean.
 am hearing the 2m beacon from CU8 (Flores) on many days in the
ummer via Es and Tropo, that is 2000km, so more than 50% of the path
lready and almost in line to VO1. But again nobody in VO1
r even VE1 who I could test with. I know there is a VE1 now who is
n 2m EME but he showed no serious interest when I emailed him.
 have made many tests on 2m in the last years with KP4EIT and FM5CS 
hen condx looked promising but no success yet.
>From all my 2m and 6m Es experience I would expect that the FM03, 04, 14
nd 25 area 
hould be a perfect area for Es propagation to Europe.
There are several quite well equipped stations qrv from CU for years
ow:
U7BC, CU8AO, CU3EQ, CU2JX and others.
U3EQ is very interested in 2m DX and TA experiments.
U8AO made experiments this August with VO1/DM8MM and heard
ood bursts from him. CU8AO had no TX at that time and it would have
een
 first terrestrial 2m QSO between VE and CU only, as this path does not
ualify for the Brendan Trophy, of course......
The good news for NA is that a 2m beacon will be on air from CU7 (grid
M58)
ery soon with a yagi beaming to VE/VO1/W1
hat is easy single hop Es distance to VO1.
he question is, who will listen from the NA side, especially from VO1?
After waiting 5 years for the licence another beacon will go on air
hese days from EA8 with an omnidirectional antenna. 
I have studied Hepburn maps for hundreds of hours the last years.
 don`t see a very big chance for Tropo between VO1 and Europe
ay be once in 20 years or so.
he most promising path I see is from CT/EA to the Caribbean, especially
he area of
M, FG etc. But FM5CS is QRT and there was no one in the last years to
est with.
There have been confirmed Aurora-E receptions from GM to VO1 on 100 MHz
fter strong 2m Aurora events in Europe. So this is a most likely chance
lso
or 2m. There are dozens of stations qrv on 2m from GM, GI, EI and even
ore from LA and SM
ut again not a single from VO1.
BTW no EU FM BC stations are active below 88 MHz from western EU
ountries,
here are a few left on 70 MHz from UA, LZ and YO but that is at least
ne extra 2000km hop.
So, I am sorry for this not really structured list of my thoughts and
its of information,
ut I wanted to share this with you as I see that you need some input
rom the EU side
here has been published a lot about this stuff as seen and experienced
rom the European
ide over the last years in DUBUS magazine.
73 and GL
oe, DL8HCZ/CT1HZE















  













______________________________________________________________
ransAtlantic mailing list
ome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/transatlantic
elp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
ost: mailto:TransAtlantic at mailman.qth.net
This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
lease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From map at mapinternet.com  Sat Nov 28 19:17:31 2009
From: map at mapinternet.com (Mark Casey)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:17:31 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE
In-Reply-To: <1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
References: <000801ca6fd5$a1dcf4d0$4e00a8c0@pc><8CC3E011E373168-9020-24A0A@webmail-m024.sysops.aol.com>
	<1NEK9j-2EYzxo0@fwd11.aul.t-online.de>
Message-ID: <F0CE7EA022A343BFBEA1699B71B24CF1@CASEYPC>

Hello Joe,

Thank-You for the comments, and for the history of reports.

It's taken a while for many of us, like myself, to get geared up for a real 
Trans-Atlantic attempt, but interest is building and building on this side. 
Right after the Brendan challenge was announced, I knew it was going to be a 
long term project for me, and probably for many others. At that time, about 
10 yrs ago, I had a small station and a poor location for a transatlantic 
try. Over the years, I've accumulated the radio building blocks for a real 
try, and 5 years ago, bought a house in coastal North Carolina with the 
transatlantic project in mind.

A few of us have considered trailer or large pickup truck, so that we could 
drive to the coastal area where the propagation is predicted. That is a real 
possibility. (The biggest problem for many of us is to get a few weeks of 
work.)

Newfoundland is one of the likeliest places for a west side station. But, it 
is a hard place to get to for most of us. It is a longer to drive to St. 
John's from Boston or New York than to Florida. And it is much more 
expensive. Still, it's not impossible that some of us won't take a big truck 
full of equipment up there, camp out for a couple of weeks and give it good 
try. For me, that would not happen for at least a year or more.

But, his remailer might help out in the liason department. We can keep each 
other updated on where and when we will be in places of interest.

My projected 2010 schedule:
now-Jan 20 at Hampden, MA FN32sb 413-566-8118, or 566-2445
Jan 20-Feb 5  at Cedar Island, NC  FM14ux 252-838-3617
Feb 8 - Feb 25 in Florida at various places, but mobile with a small 
station.  cell413-222-9292
Feb 28- March 10 at Cedar Island
March 12-April 21 at Hampden, MA
April 27-May 10 at Cedar Island
May 12 - Hampden

>From Cedar Island, I can usually get on at a few minutes notice. Right now, 
the station is at 10' above sea level, a single antenna at 30' and 300w 
(about 5kw erp). The location is on the bay and there are some very narrow 
islands with sparse, low, trees (less than 1/4 mile wide), between my place 
and the open ocean. My guess that those narrow islands would have little 
effect on a low duct tropo event was proven this past Sept. when I worked 
K1WHS in Maine, 648 miles with 2 watts on 10GHz using a small portable dish 
near the ground. 15 minutes later, we worked again from another location 
that has no interfering islands, and the reception reports were the same. 
But I have Lunar Link full power 144 MHz amp (about 45kw erp with a single 
ant.)which will be put into service at least by summer of 2010, and a higher 
tower, etc. Now, it's just a matter of time (away from work) for me to 
assemble a decent full power station.

You have looked at the Hepburn charts much more than I have, and I agree 
with your comments. If Hepburn is correct, in my opinion, it really looks 
possible for tropo events to make multiple contacts each year from CT/EI to 
many of the Caribbean Islands and Northeastern South America.

With little customs problems and no licensing issues, Puerto Rico or US 
Virgin Islands might be another very good place for USA hams to get together 
for a serious try.

Please let all of your friends in Europe know about this remailer and invite 
them to subscribe. We have been emailing everyone we can find an invitation. 
I really think complete TransAtlantic QSO's, and at multiple times and 
locations and modes. All of the comments from You and Mark, and others like 
Bob Cooper, that have history in this area of long distance VHF+ 
propagation, are really appreciated and seriously taken into account for our 
further adventures!

73
Mark Casey, K1MAP
FN32sb & FM14ux





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J. Kraft" <funk-telegramm at t-online.de>
To: <transatlantic at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TransAtlantic] de CT1HZE


Hi all,

first of all I am very happy to see that there is a lot of brainstorming
in NA
now about the final challenge on VHF, a 2m TA QSO.

Here in Europe we had this discussion for ages and it is still 
alive.......................

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.85/2531 - Release Date: 11/27/09 
14:39:00


From w7gj at q.com  Sun Nov 29 18:32:05 2009
From: w7gj at q.com (Lance Collister)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:32:05 +0000
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #3 post
In-Reply-To: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
References: <002a01ca6ed9$62656050$4e00a8c0@pc>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP9646F0F32BAEE61E26399C89970@phx.gbl>

Hi Bob,

It sure sounds like you have done the serious research that many of the previous 
half-hearted stabs at this challenge have lacked.  I would like to suggest June as 
a possible month for a serious trans-atlantic effort, based on what i have seen 
happen on 6m.

Already by June, there often seems to be very reliable chordal Es propagation 
between EU and the eastern coast of NA.  This is despite low MUF being reported on 
the Real Time MUF map, because signals can propagate chordally with much lower 
MUF.  In addition, there are many meteors throughout the month of June. 
Conceptually, it seems feasible to transmit a signal across the Atlantic if there 
is a strong Es opening on one end, and a meteor link on the other end, despite the 
  great difficulty in having these events occur simultaneously and lasting long 
enough to complete a contact. With the frequent large transatlantic airplanes on 
each end of the path, it also may be able to obtain a link that way.  I don't know 
if this type of link meets the requirements for a contact, but I also am not sure 
it would be that easy to rule out a "natural link" from a very transitory link of 
human origin. Transmitting sequences probably would probably have to be no longer 
than 15 seconds if any of these transitory types of links were involved.

I don't know if a link provided by the International Space Station (or some other 
orbiting objects)would meet the criteria of the award, but it is very possible 
this way to propagate VHF signals much further than by using the E layer alone. 
In fact, depending on the end points, it may be possible to actually complete the 
contact using reflections off the ISS without any additional links.  The duration 
of such contacts depends on the distance between the stations, and at the longest 
distances, the link durations are quite short.  Another disadvantage is that the 
solar panels need to be oriented properly for best reflection in the desired 
direction. The advantage, though, is that the orbits are quite predictable.

I would suggest high ERP on both ends of the circuit, and continuous 
monitoring/transmitting.  1.5 kw amplifiers are quite common on 2m, and WSJT 
digital modes (JT65B or FSK441) that would easily facilitate and automatically 
record coordinated sequences.  Although standard WSJT sequences may be very well 
suited to tropospheric types of propagation, they may be too long if very 
transitory links are involved.

If the stations are not already set up with EME arrays, a high gain long rope yagi 
could be set up in the desired direction.  Please see the bottom of my web page 
(below) for details on building a long rope yagi for 2m, as designed by VE7BQH.

GL and VY 73, Lance



Bob Cooper wrote:
> There are four terrestrial ways to connect W/K with Europe on 2 (or heaven forbid - 432); tropospheric, E-layer meteor, E layer sporadic E and aurora. One at a time. Tropospheric is the 'clean' way and it requires a maximum effort on both ends. But once done - it is done and the Brenden Trophy is clearly achieved. E-layer meteor is so simple as to defy any serious consideration - subject to a ruling by the Irish folk overseeing the Brenden Trophy; we'll return to this. E-layer sporadic E is more of a challenge but hardly outside of the realm of possibility. During the 2009 Es season a FM DXer of skill in northern Ireland logged, recorded and verified numerous USA stations in the 100 MHz range including one in Alabama. Of course 100 megs is not 144 but my how close we might be especially if the NA end was in Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. We'll also return there. Aurora? Gene Zimmerman is self-convinced the first 'QSO' could be between (northern) VE4 and someplace such as Swe
den
>   through the Auroral curtain. Certainly possible, as TV DX reports dating back to at least 1959 would verify (nobody but me perhaps remembers the hams and TV DXers on an ice flow in the Arctic in that era; TF3). What concerns me here is that VE4MA is the logical 'west end' overlooking the obvious; who will be the 'east end?' and 'MA' is not far enough north, in my mind, to make it work properly (he could but then - why has he not already done it?). Perhaps a VE8 would be a better shot. And then - there is the 'minor' problem of a non-starting new solar cycle.
> 
> Which returns us to E-layer meteor. Here is a shocker: From the airport at St Johns (Newfoundland - clearly NA) to the town of Santa Cruz das Flores on the island of Flores, the (almost) western most island in the Azores, is 1,212 miles; easily within meteor range. If the managers of the Brenden Trophy have no difficulty accepting the Azores (and including the island of Flores; it is CU8) being within the 'continental shelf' criteria of the trophy's rules then someone at St Johns and someone else at Santa Cruz das Flores on Flores - 1,212 miles - could wrap up the trophy during the 2010 Perseids; like shooting ducks in a pond. My own personal opinion is "this is not what the trophy is all about" although, subject to a ruling from the Irish (which neither Gene Zimmerman nor I have been able to obtain), this might fit their own vision here. So let's rule out this one, just for its "cleverness" and "so what is the big deal here?" baseline. (A plane trip from Boston to the Azo
res
>   is weekly low-budget stuff and while that does not put you on Flores, you are close enough for local transport). Let us assume, even if you did this and actually were awarded one end of the Brenden Trophy, this is not the final quarter in the game (the St Johns, Newfoundland end of the circuit is hardly worth discussion).
> 
> However, once we "see" how close two stations could be (1,212 miles) it begins to suggest normal 144 Es and possibly tropospheric connection between the two water separated continents. The history of intense Es between two is sketchy although what we do know from TA Es is mostly favorable for this path. A skilled FM DXer in northern Ireland has experienced typically one or as many as three double/even triple hop 100 MHz openings to the VE1, W1, 2 and 4 areas during recent summers - distances in the 2,000 - 4000 mile range as deeply into W4 as central Alabama (the audio tapes available on web are quite exciting). Expecting even Newfoundland to northern Ireland on 144 MHz EE (roughly 1,995 miles) could be a long wait and if either end is not monitoring closely, well - perhaps in another ten years it will happen again. The 1,212 mile Flores path looks better all of the time.
> 
> And tropospheric on the same 1,212 path? Clearly doable although the Newfoundland end is well into the 'cluttered summer weather' zone suggesting two things to me; during the transitional time frame of late May to mid/late-June (before the high becomes too well anchored in the mid-ocean area) is one possibility. The other is related to hurricanes. An intense storm moving northward with Bermuda as a target creates sharply defined moisture (and temperature) gradients and TV/FM DXers have for decades been involved in Nova Scotia to Florida openings as a well placed 'eye' tracks north. What is totally unknown is whether these associated ducts are as prolific on the northern and eastern side of the storm as they definitely are on the western edge. 
> 
> There are many alert systems in place, not the least of which is the WTFDA (TV and FM DXer) 'message board' providing near-real time reports of what is being heard (or seen), by whom and where. There are also lists available of essentially all of the European FM radio stations - with TR power and other essential information. Of note here: even if your local FM band is overloaded, a number of high power European stations operate below 88.0 where unless you happen to live where VHF channel 6 is still functional, you have clear sailing (using for example the recently released extraordinary Sony XDR tuner or full receiver - you can actually be on [say] 99.1 and listen to white noise immediately adjacent to [say] 50kw on 99.3 just down the street). Terceira FM stations are propagation indicators - whether EE or tropo. Located on a significant elevation above the western side town of Santa Barbara, 3300+ feet at the tower base, are 90.5 (22kW), 101.1 (only 400 watts; Radio Club 
de 
>  Angra) and 104.4 (Radio Horizonte; 1kW). The communications central for this island is paved road to the top (called Serra do Cum). There are no (known) FM stations on Flores but west of Terceira and certainly 'in the way' for any direct ducting are Sao Jorge (FM 107.2), and Faial/Pico (FM 100.2). 90.5 on EE seems reasonable and at 22 kW and the 3300+ antenna height it (Antena 1) should get out very well. 
> 
> And this takes us where? Terceira works - we have history on that at a sea-level location which even an optimistic person would find 'unlikely.' Detail of which FM stations, at what height 'asl/msl' is lost but I believe there would be a quickly discernible 'pattern' if we knew station by station what was received at Lajes Field. Terceira also has a paved parking lot at around 3300/3400 feet ASL (my XYL and I have been there) and by driving the roadway down to Santa Barbara, you can select a height 'asl/msl' to suit your objective. One clue in all of this will be the FM broadcast band (86-108 MHz), pre-loaded with the previously disclosed Terceira frequencies as well as those for Pico/Faial. Unfortunately, 90.5 is 3400'+ and if my 'high west-low east theory' is correct, 3,400+' on the east end could easily be above the duct. Just think K6MYC!
> 
> There remains the unanswered question as to whether 'the Azores' does in fact satisfy the Irish Brenden Trophy definition of Europe. And a subset to that. 'Some' sources suggest Flores and Corvo (the two most westerly islands in the Azores - Flores makes 'mechanical sense' while Corvo does not) are in fact 'connected to the 'North American Plate' which is a physical description of whether they are part of Europe or North America. If the Irish were to rule against Flores (and Corvo), at 1,212 and 1207 miles respectively from St Johns, that leaves Terceira and Faial plus Pico as eastern sites (adding roughly 150 miles to the 1,212 Flores - St Johns path).
> 
> Clearly Terceira is continental-shelf-Europe and while 1,417 miles from St Johns, the 'paved parking lot' of some size at 3,400 or so feet ASL makes excellent sense; almost. The site is overloaded with FM band (previously cited), TV (band 3 - 174-216 MHz) and an undefined number of 150-170 MHz repeaters. Think Mount Wilson or the Empire State Building, on a lesser scale, and you have the 'images' these will create in a super-sensitive 144.200 MHz receiver system. On the other hand, being 'in the parking lot' at tower-base is probably not where you should be anyhow (remember - ducting - 'high west, lower east'); and the winding roadway down to the near-coastal town of Santa Barbara rapidly gets you out of the near field radiation problems there. I know - I have done it. 
> 
> Locations on Faial and Pico have mechanical problems; Faial, for example, while it gets to 3,420' ASL, is without a navigable road on the west side that allows up-down testing. Pico is marginally - but not much - better. It all looks nice 'on a map' until you arrive and learn you cannot 'get there from here.' In other words, lacking suitable western-island vantage point receiving location (east end of the path), none of what is there makes much sense. Except; except that if it gets in the way (as Faial's 3,420' might do) with a duct that is trying to reach the US mainland (a duct at 600' ASL running into the 3,420' elevation on Faial would be dead, instantly).
> 
> A 'remote receiver' at Santa Barbara, Terceira (yes - K1WHS) makes some sense if there is telecoms to support it coming back to the states. A properly programmed Sony XDR with scan tune and some carefully selected FM band channels (not to conflict with the 'local' Azores channels) could be half the 'test;' the other half is anyone who has the ability to monitor Azorean FM channels (such as 90.5) should be equipped to do so 24 x 7 from at least mid-May to mid-August. And a reminder aside: The Irish need to sit down and tell us 'The Azores DO count as Europe - for the Brenden Trophy ' - otherwise we are back to a far longer and less likely set of paths. (K6EDX/ZL4AAA) 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
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> 


-- 
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!


From k4mhz at aol.com  Sun Nov 29 23:10:23 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 23:10:23 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] 144 Mhz Transatlantic "Brendan Cup" Rules cut and
	paste from WEB site
Message-ID: <8CC3F8A2C34F006-762C-58DA1@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com>




Location of the Stations:
The two stations involved must be located on land or non-tidal waterways within the continental shelves of Europe and America as defined[b].  Note that the limit of the continental shelf of Europe is deemed to lie along the line of maximum depth between the European land mass and Iceland, while that of North America is defined to lie along the line of maximum depth between Canada and Greenland.

Station Details:
Operators applying for the Transmitting Awards must have held a current Amateur Radio Licence provided by their respective authority at the time of the contact, and have operated within the provisions of their licence during the contact, particularly in regard to frequency and power limitations.  Any information regarding the stations demanded by the Awards Panel must be provided and if required the stations must be made available for inspection by nominated representative(s) of the Awards Panel.
 


Categories:
There are three categories of Award: 
The Brendan Trophies, awarded for the first traditional mode 2 way contact.  Modes permitted are phone and cw capable of being read without machine assistance. 


The Brendan Shields, awarded for the first non traditional mode 2 way contact.  Modes permitted are all digital modes including high speed cw. 
The Brendan Plates, awarded for the first verified reception of a trans Atlantic signal, all modes permitted. 


In addition the Brendan Medal, a triennial Silver Medal will be awarded to the group or individual who, in the opinion of the Awarding Committee, has contributed most to the promotion of propagation studies on the trans Atlantic 2 metre path.




The Contact:
The definition of a Contact is conventional, i.e. two way communication will be deemed to be established when each station has:
a) received both call signs in full
b) received a signal report (Minimum two characters of any generally recognised system[c])
c) received confirmation (R or Roger) that the other station has satisfied above conditions (a) and (b).
This Information must be exchanged within a maximum period of four hours, after which the contact must be recommenced.  The contact must be made via natural reflectors within the atmospheric mantle of the earth, which for these purposes may be taken as a distance of 1,000 km.  Thus man-made reflectors (aircraft, satellites, etc.) as well as EME are excluded.  The onus of providing proof of the contact satisfactory to the Panel rests on those involved.  The level of proof required by the Panel will depend on the circumstances involved.  For example, if the contact is the result of pre-arranged tests, then the Panel will expect a higher level of proof than if the contact were "random", such as complete recordings of the signals from both sides.  If on the other hand, the contact is made spontaneously, the signed statements of both operators and witnesses on one or both sides may be acceptable.  All relevant facts will be taken into consideration when evaluating a claim, and the Panel will pursue whatever line of enquiry they choose to evaluate a claim.



Procedures following a Claim:
Applications for the award must be made in writing to the Chairman of the Awards Panel within three calendar months of the contact being made, setting out clearly their evidence of a valid contact, and include a signed Declaration of Honesty and Operation within the true Spirit of Amateur Radio.  The Panel will make the claim public by providing details to the Amateur Radio press on both sides of the Atlantic, and invite relevant comments.  Any representation concerning the contact will be carefully considered before their decision is made.
For an award to be made, both stations must have satisfied the award conditions.  The decision on the validity of the contact within these rules rests solely with the appointed Awards Panel.  This Panel will make their decision on a claim for the award within one calendar year of the claim being received, and will make their reasons known in the event of a refusal to award the trophy.  However, they reserve the right not to enter into any correspondence subsequently to their decision.



From w7gj at q.com  Mon Nov 30 11:40:06 2009
From: w7gj at q.com (Lance Collister)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:40:06 +0000
Subject: [TransAtlantic] 144 Mhz Transatlantic "Brendan Cup" Rules cut
 and	paste from WEB site
In-Reply-To: <8CC3F8A2C34F006-762C-58DA1@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC3F8A2C34F006-762C-58DA1@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP509AFB494D824E8D45717289970@phx.gbl>

MNI TNX for the clarification!

http://www.irts.ie/cgi/brendan.cgi#b

I see that there are awards for both a "traditional" SSB/CW contact and digital 
mode contact.  While it would certainly be exciting to hear strong SSB signals and 
have them last long enough for a two-way contact, I would think that would be much 
less likely to be possible.  Anyway, this provides for a couple of totally 
different approaches, which adds to the excitement and probably greatly increases 
the chance for success ;-)

I also think that - unless there is an extended opening which lasts a long time - 
it is going to be very difficult to ascertain whether the contact involved a 
transitory link that was "natural" or "man-made".  I am convinced that many of the 
signals heard on VHF these days are as a result of propagation caused by man-made 
objects (satellites at various orbital heights, jet airplanes, etc.).

The question of what qualifies as allowable station locations seems to be pretty 
clearly defined by their references to the continental shelves.  In terms of DXCC, 
it is quite clear that anything that is removed from the continental shelf 
qualifies as a separate DXCC.  That is why there can be many of those separate 
DXCC off the coast of EU.  It seems quite clear that their intent was not to 
structure the awards based on contacts to the mid-Atlantic, but between the 
continents of NA and EU.

What I think shows particularly good vision is the award of plates for partial 
contacts.  That encourages people to set up high power beacons and rewards them if 
they are just heard ;-)  However, it certainly would behoove the listener to make 
a recording of the signal...

GL to all!  VY 73, Lance


-- 
Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT  59834  USA
QTH: DN27UB
TEL: (406) 626-5728   URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email!

From k4mhz at aol.com  Mon Nov 30 13:42:09 2009
From: k4mhz at aol.com (k4mhz at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 13:42:09 -0500
Subject: [TransAtlantic] 144 Mhz Transatlantic "Brendan Cup" Rules cut
 and paste from WEB site
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP509AFB494D824E8D45717289970@phx.gbl>
References: <8CC3F8A2C34F006-762C-58DA1@webmail-d049.sysops.aol.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP509AFB494D824E8D45717289970@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC4003F4FA6CFB-4958-34FE@webmail-d037.sysops.aol.com>


Lance and team
good discussion...

I think as we move forward and think out of the box, there are enhancements and capabilities that will emerge. we have just touched the surface...
I layed out a simple link budget to see where I can optimize on my side.  We should start a profile of  stations on the other side as to elevation and system capabilities.

I spent 10 years at AT&T Bell Labs launching new RF based networks and in almost every case was a nose bleed with plenty of obsticles. As the experience and solutions came , It became common place.

Target operating windows...June has merit, but looking at more data that suggest August or early September for 1-2 week and a 24X7 effort. Currently planning to operate at my location on Hatteras Island FM25 (w/240VAC to run the kw amp ) from August 21st to September 6th. 2010.. all subject to change once I find out if the other ends will be operational.

BTW: I completed my Antenna trailer for this years September VHF contest. It supports stacked 144 MHz 12 element M2 or, for the past VHF contest I had 33 elements on 432 and 44 elements on 1296 on the beach. It has sand tires and towed by a Jeep Sahara. 

stay tuned...
Mark
K4MHZ






-----Original Message-----
From: Lance Collister <w7gj at q.com>
To: k4mhz at aol.com
Cc: info at irts.ie; transatlantic at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [TransAtlantic] 144 Mhz Transatlantic "Brendan Cup" Rules cut and paste from WEB site


MNI TNX for the clarification! 
 
http://www.irts.ie/cgi/brendan.cgi#b 
 
I see that there are awards for both a "traditional" SSB/CW contact and digital mode contact. While it would certainly be exciting to hear strong SSB signals and have them last long enough for a two-way contact, I would think that would be much less likely to be possible. Anyway, this provides for a couple of totally different approaches, which adds to the excitement and probably greatly increases the chance for success ;-) 
 
I also think that - unless there is an extended opening which lasts a long time - it is going to be very difficult to ascertain whether the contact involved a transitory link that was "natural" or "man-made". I am convinced that many of the signals heard on VHF these days are as a result of propagation caused by man-made objects (satellites at various orbital heights, jet airplanes, etc.). 
 
The question of what qualifies as allowable station locations seems to be pretty clearly defined by their references to the continental shelves. In terms of DXCC, it is quite clear that anything that is removed from the continental shelf qualifies as a separate DXCC. That is why there can be many of those separate DXCC off the coast of EU. It seems quite clear that their intent was not to structure the awards based on contacts to the mid-Atlantic, but between the continents of NA and EU. 
 
What I think shows particularly good vision is the award of plates for partial contacts. That encourages people to set up high power beacons and rewards them if they are just heard ;-) However, it certainly would behoove the listener to make a recording of the signal... 
 
GL to all! VY 73, Lance 
 
-- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX) 
P.O. Box 73 
Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA 
QTH: DN27UB 
TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 
2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815 
 
Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME email! 


From skyking at clear.net.nz  Mon Nov 30 16:01:47 2009
From: skyking at clear.net.nz (Bob Cooper)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 10:01:47 +1300
Subject: [TransAtlantic] K6EDX #4
Message-ID: <003601ca7200$54d0ffb0$4e00a8c0@pc>

K6EDX #4 Post

There seems to be some misconception of what a 'duct' is or does. Think of an almost lossless piece of large (HUGE! in fact) diameter coaxial cable, extending from your QTH to one hundreds, thousands of miles distant. Now give that 'cable' an elevation above sea/ground level (ASL/AGL), a physical vertical dimension (height) and a physical horizontal dimension (width). If your transmit/receive antenna is at the correct height (ASL/AGL) your transmit energy 'couples' into the duct and it transports your signal with very small incremental attenuation over whatever length as the duct exists to a receiving terminal (1) along the way, or, (2) at the terminus of the duct (end) - provided the station at the opposite end of the 'path' (imaginary cable) ALSO has their receive (and transmit) antenna at the height required (ASL/AGL) to ALSO be inside of the duct's vertical height parameters.

My apology for the basics here but based upon email responses, it is apparent not all, who should, understand the physical properties at play here. If you are (at either end of/OR along the duct) above OR below the duct's physical parameters (height or vertical thickness) no reasonable amount of energy on the transmit end will 'couple' (connect) you into this invisible-to-the-eye "waveguide."

Ducts tend to have a "resonant frequency range" and for us it is fortunate 100-200 MHz fits the "typical" duct resonance. I have experienced 50 MHz signals from Hawaii into California on ducting and 55.25 signals from Boston to the Turks and Caicos Islands (approaching 1,400 miles) but on average anything below the FM radio band in frequency (88 MHz not to be specific but as a class of signals) is non-resonant in a duct. So you can miss out on the high energy transfer efficiency of a duct by being (1) at the wrong height (too low or too high ASL/AGL), (2) the wrong north-south/east-west coordinate; simply beyond where the duct has formed), or, (3) on the wrong frequency. A percentage, fairly high in fact, of ducts 'resonate' well at say 400-900 MHz but not so good at 200(144) MHz. TV DXers can recount endless examples of this; signals at 600 miles on UHF, nothing unusual on VHF (including FM). The reverse also happens; FM (88-108 MHz or the weather radio channels in the 160-165 MHz band) are 'hot' and UHF is "dead." It pays to have a variety of receivers and the skills to monitor more than say only 144.300. 

All of this leads to my own attention to ducts from at least 1970 onward. In 1974-1979, it was my good fortune to be associated with CATA (the Community Antenna Television Association; and its monthly journal CATJ) within which several members including CATA head Kyle Moore owned their own two engine private plane. Kyle, and I, made dozens of short (under 1,000 mile) trips out of Wiley Post Field (Oklahoma City) and as he was a TV guy (operating cable TV systems) he understood when I climbed aboard with a battery or 12V operated color TV set and stuck a whip antenna to the Plexiglas window on his Bonanza. I can recount (will not) perhaps a dozen incidents when we lifted off the Oklahoma turf and he very slowly - much slower than he had been instructed by ground control - climbed through 400-600-1,000-2,000 feet to his assigned cruising altitude. The distance to, say, Lexington, Kentucky was just over 600 miles as we lifted aloft. "Stop - slow the climb down" I would instruct and for several tens of miles I could fine tune Lexington's channel 18 or 27 to allow him to fly and me to measure the duct's height. The answer was plus or minus 300 feet much of the time and with some skill he would drift up and down to allow me using his altimeter to define where the duct boundaries occurred (typically VERY sharply defined). Of course traveling to Ohio at say 800 feet elevation would have been a violation of (1) air traffic rules, and, (2) fuel consumption common sense so my 'measurements' seldom lasted for more then a few minutes. After settling at say 12,000 feet I'd urge him to drop 'back down' every few hundred miles and we'd run smack dab into the duct at the logical height virtually every time. "You are using up my fuel" was his usual chiding remark. Not to speak of why he was deviating from his 'assigned' altitude and needed to request permission to 'drop down to 800 feet' over say Joplin, Missouri!

Now move me to the 1980-1990 period. I now am VP5D and twice a month on average for ten years (200+ times) I flew in a Beechcraft D18 tail-dragger from Providenciales to Fort Lauderdale, and return; +/- 600 miles x 2. The pilot was the last of the surviving WW2 fighter pilot guys, 'Crazy Ed,' and he would do anything you asked as long as you gave him cash. Crazy Ed paid absolutely no attention to FAA/CAA rules, lied his way out of dozens (even hundreds) of official inspections with me standing beside him, and flying with Ed was akin to being a Japanese Kamikaze passenger. Once over the Bahamas his HUGELY overloaded D18 ("Weight and balance???" he would say to anyone stupid enough to ask; "If this sucker gets off the ground I pass!!!") with me in the co-pilot seat because the rear end was so badly overloaded with freight there were no seats left, we lost the entry door when the cargo bounced onto the loading door latch (only the cargo net strung in the doorway kept the freight on board with a gaping hole now where the door had been). Someplace down there in perhaps Eleuthera there is a D18 door buried in the coral. Or he would take paying passengers and stick them into the one seat crapper/loo (toilet). Once I tried to get in there through an aisleway jammed with freight and discovered a native Turks & Caicos lady with two kids crammed into the 'john.' You get the picture - Crazy Ed was totally off the wall. He 'loaded' each flight, especially from Fort Lauderdale Exec Airport down to Provo, from the front; "You are co-pilot" he would assign and then from front to back the boxes and Caterpillar D8 gears and foodstuffs and who knows what was jammed in until they reached the rear loading door. At that point a ground guy, after loading the 'john/loo' as well, would use all of his force to shut the door against the protruding boxes and freight. I cannot believe I did this - and still alive to relate the story - over 200 times!

The good times were when I had enough 'room' to operate my 12" GE battery operated TV set using a whip antenna 'Crazy Ed' had 'graciously' allowed me to install on his top fuselage - mostly because I was his best (and cash paying) client. I won't bore you with why he stopped in the Bahamas both to and from Provo but there were certain 'services' along the Bahamian chain which SOME passengers really wanted to use (read the book: "Television's Pirates" from Amazon.com). Getting to ducting; Ed was reasonably accommodating as to my '800 feet please' requests - subject ALWAYS to my promise to pay for the extra fuel these diversions would cost him. I can tell you that over a decade I witnessed dozens - tens and tens - of ducts especially in March-June, where we would lift off Exec Airport with me to tuned to a Fort Lauderdale or Miami UHF channel and 500+ miles later (or 300 miles later when we let down on a Bahamian island for 'service') as we descended down to Providenciales runway there it was - still there at about the same altitude but gone at sea level. These two generic examples sort of illustrate my point; either you are "in" the duct or you are "out" and if you are below - well - no reasonable amount of ERP (power) is going to get you in - or the other guy's signal out. Being inside the duct is paramount here - being below is to suffer a double whammy; first you are not in, and worse yet, your signal is being shielded from getting in by the moisture/temperature parameters of the bottom (or top if you are well elevated) of the duct. Think METAL waveguide here - those inside are home free; those "outside" (whether 'above' or 'below' ) might as well be in New Zealand; ducts, like metal waveguide, keep signals 'out' as well as 'in.' 

So this effort - to reach Europe on 144 MHz or above, if by the troposphere, is REALLY all about wave propagation. It is not about red blobs on Bill's maps or what happens between two distant points; it is about being conscious of what it takes to get 'inside the magic waveguide' (where power is not an ingredient; being in the right place at the right time is!)

Bob Cooper K6EDX/ZL4AAA

