From williamsiron at comcast.net  Sat Sep 27 02:33:58 2025
From: williamsiron at comcast.net (Mark Williams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 02:33:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
Message-ID: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>

Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
 
Thanks in advance
Mark Williams
Snow Hill, MD

From freemab222 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 27 08:13:05 2025
From: freemab222 at gmail.com (Bruce)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 08:13:05 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, Mark,

I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the
internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used
microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax" and
got a hit or two that way.
https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:text=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combined%20wax
.

All the best,

Bruce
NJ


On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge <
theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a formula
> that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance
> Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula and hoped that one of you
> could remember  and send it.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Mark Williams
> Snow Hill, MD
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to freemab222 at gmail.com
>

From williamsiron at comcast.net  Sat Sep 27 11:02:04 2025
From: williamsiron at comcast.net (Mark Williams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 11:02:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>

Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it works.

Mark
> On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hey, Mark,
> 
> I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the
> internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used
> microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax" and
> got a hit or two that way.
> https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:text=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combined%20wax
> .
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Bruce
> NJ
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge <
> theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a formula
> > that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance
> > Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula and hoped that one of you
> > could remember  and send it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Mark Williams
> > Snow Hill, MD
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to freemab222 at gmail.com
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to williamsiron at comcast.net

From dhayes at dthayes.com  Sat Sep 27 12:00:39 2025
From: dhayes at dthayes.com (dhayes at dthayes.com)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 12:00:39 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>

I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it. AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for researching something like this):

"What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that replicated Renaissance Wax?"

The following is what AI had to say:

*****
Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a publication of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe attributed to Gilbert:
? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
- Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
- White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
? Preparation Notes
- Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over direct flame due to flammability).
- Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
- Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.

Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, optics, or archival preservation.

*******
Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a bit off the mainstream).

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via TheForge
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula

Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it works.

Mark
> On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hey, Mark,
> 
> I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
> internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used 
> microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax" 
> and got a hit or two that way.
> https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:te
> xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combined%
> 20wax
> .
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Bruce
> NJ
> 
> 
> On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
> theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
> > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
> > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula 
> > and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Mark Williams
> > Snow Hill, MD
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > freemab222 at gmail.com
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> williamsiron at comcast.net
______________________________________________________________
TheForge mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net

TheForge mail list group photo site is
http://www.shutterfly.com
Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
Password: anvil

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dhayes at dthayes.com 


From williamsiron at comcast.net  Sat Sep 27 14:18:03 2025
From: williamsiron at comcast.net (Mark Williams)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2025 14:18:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
Message-ID: <186139743.672328.1758997083499@connect.xfinity.com>

Thanks Dan. I'll let the list know how it goes.
Mark
> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> 
>  
> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it. AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for researching something like this):
> 
> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that replicated Renaissance Wax?"
> 
> The following is what AI had to say:
> 
> *****
> Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a publication of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe attributed to Gilbert:
> ? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
> ? Preparation Notes
> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over direct flame due to flammability).
> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
> 
> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, optics, or archival preservation.
> 
> *******
> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a bit off the mainstream).
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via TheForge
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it works.
> 
> Mark
> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > Hey, Mark,
> > 
> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used 
> > microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax" 
> > and got a hit or two that way.
> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:te
> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combined%
> > 20wax
> > .
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula 
> > > and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Mark Williams
> > > Snow Hill, MD
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > TheForge mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > > Password: anvil
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > > freemab222 at gmail.com
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > 
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > williamsiron at comcast.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dhayes at dthayes.com 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to williamsiron at comcast.net

From restoreman123 at msn.com  Sun Sep 28 00:55:07 2025
From: restoreman123 at msn.com (Vincent Nakovics)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 04:55:07 +0000
Subject: [TheForge] Ren Wax
In-Reply-To: <mailman.12.1758988810.19612.theforge@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.12.1758988810.19612.theforge@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR04MB72309F202448B13F0BB4D393FF18A@SJ0PR04MB7230.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

We used to use microcrystalline wax mixed with paraffin wax combined with spirits. Adding a touch of naptha makes it dry faster, but then it tends to dry up faster in the container. Constant exposure outdoors it provided protection for at seven years. I used heavy coats and found the wax still performing when I reapplied.  I had a maintenance schedule.

Vince
________________________________
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of theforge-request at mailman.qth.net <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 6:00 PM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 221, Issue 1

Send TheForge mailing list submissions to
        theforge at mailman.qth.net

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From williamsiron at comcast.net  Tue Sep 30 03:16:02 2025
From: williamsiron at comcast.net (Mark Williams)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 03:16:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
Message-ID: <607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>

Dan,
If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me know. I found one source as General Wax located in California. In looking through my collection of old containers, I found some wax I had made a long while ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt this outdoors and mix white spirit with it, storing the result in screwtop glass jars so the spirits don't depart.

Mark
Snow Hill, MD
> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> 
>  
> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it. AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for researching something like this):
> 
> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that replicated Renaissance Wax?"
> 
> The following is what AI had to say:
> 
> *****
> Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a publication of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe attributed to Gilbert:
> ? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
> ? Preparation Notes
> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over direct flame due to flammability).
> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
> 
> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, optics, or archival preservation.
> 
> *******
> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a bit off the mainstream).
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via TheForge
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it works.
> 
> Mark
> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > Hey, Mark,
> > 
> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used 
> > microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax" 
> > and got a hit or two that way.
> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:te
> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combined%
> > 20wax
> > .
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the formula 
> > > and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Mark Williams
> > > Snow Hill, MD
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > TheForge mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > > Password: anvil
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > > freemab222 at gmail.com
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > 
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > williamsiron at comcast.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dhayes at dthayes.com 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to williamsiron at comcast.net

From saintphlip at gmail.com  Tue Sep 30 04:09:40 2025
From: saintphlip at gmail.com (Saint Phlip)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 04:09:40 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
	<607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <CAA3uHKytFbRWWkm8sH8FMjXfRzzJT80ftXPUX=D1efuYuGxeEg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, guys :) It's been a while :) I just can't deal with Facebook much, or
most other social media sites, but I caught this email thread, and thought
it sounded interesting.
I think I, too, will try this formula. I have a horn mug that needs a
better seal on it, and was going to ask on one of my SCA lists, but hadn't
gotten to it yet.

So, does anyone know how long, roughly, it should take to set up?

Any ideas on the thickness of the layers?

I had been using beeswax, thanks to a deal I made with a local beekeeper,
to coat some of the leather mugs, etc, that I had made. Should I expect
this mix to behave similarly to the beeswax?

Is it food safe?

And, does anyone have any ideas about what the original recipes ( because
there would have to be more than one, given how commonly there would be a
need for such a concoction, and the varying circumstances and ecologies in
the Euro-Middle Eastern areas) might have been? Or where I might look for
su?h a thing?

I feel these are all questions we should be asking each other and ourselves.

On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 3:16?AM Mark Williams via TheForge <
theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> Dan,
> If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me know.
> I found one source as General Wax located in California. In looking through
> my collection of old containers, I found some wax I had made a long while
> ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt this outdoors and mix white
> spirit with it, storing the result in screwtop glass jars so the spirits
> don't depart.
>
> Mark
> Snow Hill, MD
> ( Etc. I cut off the rest of the thread so we don't crap up everyone's
> mailboxes- St. P. )
>

From dhayes at dthayes.com  Tue Sep 30 16:10:20 2025
From: dhayes at dthayes.com (dhayes at dthayes.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:10:20 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
	<607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <001d01dc3246$40852780$c18f7680$@dthayes.com>

Mark,

AI can be very effective at digging deep into questions like that. The amount of information being entered into the databases is downright scarey (but that's another subject, more for forums like the old ARTmetal mailing list). Not only does AI come up with deep dive answers to direct questions but it also suggests where to go with the answers and dive deeper. Anyway, here is the AI response to the direct question on sources of high quality microcrystalline wax as well and the first follow up question and answer. The responses can get quite lengthy so I tried to keep it to a length appropriate for this list. Questions and answers separated by asterisks. Hope you find it helpful.

**********

"Please find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax. General Wax in California may be one. Are there others?"

**********

Yes, Daniel ? General Wax is one option, but here are several other reputable suppliers of high-grade microcrystalline wax worth considering:
? Top Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax

1. IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
- Location: Texas-based, serving North America
- Grades: Cosmetic, food, and industrial-grade waxes
- Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 194?F; hardness from 7 to 36 ASTM D1321
- Formats: Bulk liquid, granules, pellets, slabs
- Highlights: Offers custom blends and has a fully integrated supply chain

2. Blended Waxes Inc.
- Location: Wisconsin
- Grades: BW-405 to BW-431, ranging from soft/tacky to hard/brittle
- Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 195?F; FDA-compliant for food and cosmetic use
- Applications: Cosmetics, candles, adhesives, coatings, sculpting
- Highlights: Over 45 years of experience in custom wax blends

3. King Honor International
- Location: China (bulk export available)
- Grades: M70, M80, and hydrogenated variants
- Certifications: ISO9001
- Applications: Chewing gum, cosmetics, dental materials, industrial coatings
- Highlights: Competitive pricing and broad product range for global buyers

1) igiwax.com
2) blendwaxes.com
3) www.khonorwax.com

If you're looking for domestic sourcing with high purity and customization, IGI and Blended Waxes are especially strong contenders. Want help comparing melt points, oil content, or bulk pricing across these? I can model that next.

**********

"yes"

**********

Here are several verified sources for high-grade microcrystalline wax, including General Wax and others that cater to industrial, cosmetic, and conservation-grade needs:
? Verified Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax

Supplier:
Location:
Grade Offered:
Notable Features:

Supplier: General Wax & Candle Co.
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Grade Offered: Cosmetic, candle, industrial
Notable Features: Known for custom blends and bulk supply

Supplier: IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.) 
Location: Houston, TX
Grade Offered: Food, cosmetic, industrial	
Notable Features: Offers high-purity waxes with detailed spec sheets

Supplier: Blended Waxes Inc.
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Grade Offered: BW-405 to BW-431
Notable Features: FDA-compliant, tailored blends for conservation and cosmetics

Supplier: Paramelt B.V.
Location: Netherlands (global distribution)
Grade Offered: Microcrystalline and paraffin blends
Notable Features: High-end waxes for packaging, coatings, and pharma		

Supplier: King Honor International
Location: China
Grade Offered: M70, M80, hydrogenated
Notable Features: Bulk export, ISO-certified, competitive pricing		

Supplier: Strahl & Pitsch Inc.
Location: West Babylon, NY	
Grade Offered: SP-89, SP-105, SP-179
Notable Features: Premium grades for cosmetics, dental, and conservation use				

? Tips for Sourcing
?	Conservation-grade: Strahl & Pitsch is often preferred for museum and archival use (e.g., Renaissance Wax replication).
?	Bulk industrial: IGI and Paramelt offer robust supply chains and technical support.
?	Custom blends: Blended Waxes and General Wax are flexible for small-batch or specialty formulations.

Would you like help comparing melt points, oil content, or sourcing samples for testing? I can model specs or help draft outreach language.

**********

Getting the above answers took seconds, re-formatting the table into test-only mailing list format much longer. 

AI is an incredibly useful research tool but it can also be deep and tempting  rabbit hole to fall into. 

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via TheForge
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 3:16 AM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula

Dan,
If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me know. I found one source as General Wax located in California. In looking through my collection of old containers, I found some wax I had made a long while ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt this outdoors and mix white spirit with it, storing the result in screwtop glass jars so the spirits don't depart.

Mark
Snow Hill, MD
> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> 
>  
> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it. AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for researching something like this):
> 
> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that replicated Renaissance Wax?"
> 
> The following is what AI had to say:
> 
> *****
> Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a publication of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe attributed to Gilbert:
> ? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
> ? Preparation Notes
> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over direct flame due to flammability).
> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
> 
> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, optics, or archival preservation.
> 
> *******
> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a bit off the mainstream).
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
> TheForge
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; 
> Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it works.
> 
> Mark
> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > Hey, Mark,
> > 
> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used 
> > microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax"
> > and got a hit or two that way.
> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:
> > te 
> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combine
> > d%
> > 20wax
> > .
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the 
> > > formula and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Mark Williams
> > > Snow Hill, MD
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > TheForge mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > > Password: anvil
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > > freemab222 at gmail.com
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> > 
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this 
> > email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> > williamsiron at comcast.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> dhayes at dthayes.com
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> williamsiron at comcast.net
______________________________________________________________
TheForge mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net

TheForge mail list group photo site is
http://www.shutterfly.com
Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
Password: anvil

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dhayes at dthayes.com 


From lorne at smithlist.net  Tue Sep 30 16:18:34 2025
From: lorne at smithlist.net (lorne at smithlist.net)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:18:34 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <001d01dc3246$40852780$c18f7680$@dthayes.com>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>
	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>
	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>
	<607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>
	<001d01dc3246$40852780$c18f7680$@dthayes.com>
Message-ID: <07af8b3fc0da3fdf1a1bee2d64b7a1d7@smithlist.net>

A word of caution on the AI. While very useful and a pretty big 
timesaver it is a master of slipping absolute fluff into its responses 
and wrapping it up so it looks like it belongs. I have even had it slip 
in simple math mistakes, something it really shouldn't do.

Verify everything when you can.

Cheers,
Lorne

On 2025-09-30 16:10, dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> AI can be very effective at digging deep into questions like that. The 
> amount of information being entered into the databases is downright 
> scarey (but that's another subject, more for forums like the old 
> ARTmetal mailing list). Not only does AI come up with deep dive answers 
> to direct questions but it also suggests where to go with the answers 
> and dive deeper. Anyway, here is the AI response to the direct question 
> on sources of high quality microcrystalline wax as well and the first 
> follow up question and answer. The responses can get quite lengthy so I 
> tried to keep it to a length appropriate for this list. Questions and 
> answers separated by asterisks. Hope you find it helpful.
> 
> **********
> 
> "Please find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax. General Wax 
> in California may be one. Are there others?"
> 
> **********
> 
> Yes, Daniel ? General Wax is one option, but here are several other 
> reputable suppliers of high-grade microcrystalline wax worth 
> considering:
> ? Top Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> 1. IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> - Location: Texas-based, serving North America
> - Grades: Cosmetic, food, and industrial-grade waxes
> - Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 194?F; hardness from 7 to 36 ASTM 
> D1321
> - Formats: Bulk liquid, granules, pellets, slabs
> - Highlights: Offers custom blends and has a fully integrated supply 
> chain
> 
> 2. Blended Waxes Inc.
> - Location: Wisconsin
> - Grades: BW-405 to BW-431, ranging from soft/tacky to hard/brittle
> - Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 195?F; FDA-compliant for food and 
> cosmetic use
> - Applications: Cosmetics, candles, adhesives, coatings, sculpting
> - Highlights: Over 45 years of experience in custom wax blends
> 
> 3. King Honor International
> - Location: China (bulk export available)
> - Grades: M70, M80, and hydrogenated variants
> - Certifications: ISO9001
> - Applications: Chewing gum, cosmetics, dental materials, industrial 
> coatings
> - Highlights: Competitive pricing and broad product range for global 
> buyers
> 
> 1) igiwax.com
> 2) blendwaxes.com
> 3) www.khonorwax.com
> 
> If you're looking for domestic sourcing with high purity and 
> customization, IGI and Blended Waxes are especially strong contenders. 
> Want help comparing melt points, oil content, or bulk pricing across 
> these? I can model that next.
> 
> **********
> 
> "yes"
> 
> **********
> 
> Here are several verified sources for high-grade microcrystalline wax, 
> including General Wax and others that cater to industrial, cosmetic, 
> and conservation-grade needs:
> ? Verified Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> Supplier:
> Location:
> Grade Offered:
> Notable Features:
> 
> Supplier: General Wax & Candle Co.
> Location: North Hollywood, CA
> Grade Offered: Cosmetic, candle, industrial
> Notable Features: Known for custom blends and bulk supply
> 
> Supplier: IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> Location: Houston, TX
> Grade Offered: Food, cosmetic, industrial
> Notable Features: Offers high-purity waxes with detailed spec sheets
> 
> Supplier: Blended Waxes Inc.
> Location: Oshkosh, WI
> Grade Offered: BW-405 to BW-431
> Notable Features: FDA-compliant, tailored blends for conservation and 
> cosmetics
> 
> Supplier: Paramelt B.V.
> Location: Netherlands (global distribution)
> Grade Offered: Microcrystalline and paraffin blends
> Notable Features: High-end waxes for packaging, coatings, and pharma
> 
> Supplier: King Honor International
> Location: China
> Grade Offered: M70, M80, hydrogenated
> Notable Features: Bulk export, ISO-certified, competitive pricing
> 
> Supplier: Strahl & Pitsch Inc.
> Location: West Babylon, NY
> Grade Offered: SP-89, SP-105, SP-179
> Notable Features: Premium grades for cosmetics, dental, and 
> conservation use
> 
> ? Tips for Sourcing
> ?	Conservation-grade: Strahl & Pitsch is often preferred for museum and 
> archival use (e.g., Renaissance Wax replication).
> ?	Bulk industrial: IGI and Paramelt offer robust supply chains and 
> technical support.
> ?	Custom blends: Blended Waxes and General Wax are flexible for 
> small-batch or specialty formulations.
> 
> Would you like help comparing melt points, oil content, or sourcing 
> samples for testing? I can model specs or help draft outreach language.
> 
> **********
> 
> Getting the above answers took seconds, re-formatting the table into 
> test-only mailing list format much longer.
> 
> AI is an incredibly useful research tool but it can also be deep and 
> tempting  rabbit hole to fall into.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
> TheForge
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 3:16 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Dan,
> If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me 
> know. I found one source as General Wax located in California. In 
> looking through my collection of old containers, I found some wax I had 
> made a long while ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt this 
> outdoors and mix white spirit with it, storing the result in screwtop 
> glass jars so the spirits don't depart.
> 
> Mark
> Snow Hill, MD
>> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and 
>> look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much 
>> information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it. 
>> AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in 
>> Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for 
>> researching something like this):
>> 
>> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow some 
>> years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that replicated 
>> Renaissance Wax?"
>> 
>> The following is what AI had to say:
>> 
>> *****
>> Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a publication 
>> of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), was a DIY 
>> attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax using 
>> accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly archived 
>> online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among conservation 
>> and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe attributed to 
>> Gilbert:
>> ? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
>> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
>> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
>> ? Preparation Notes
>> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over 
>> direct flame due to flammability).
>> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
>> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
>> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of 
>> Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for 
>> metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio slightly 
>> for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene wax for 
>> closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
>> 
>> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or 
>> adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, optics, 
>> or archival preservation.
>> 
>> *******
>> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that 
>> blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a 
>> bit off the mainstream).
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via
>> TheForge
>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>;
>> Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
>> 
>> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you 
>> to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it 
>> works.
>> 
>> Mark
>> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey, Mark,
>> >
>> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the
>> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that used
>> > microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax"
>> > and got a hit or two that way.
>> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:
>> > te
>> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combine
>> > d%
>> > 20wax
>> > .
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > NJ
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge <
>> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a
>> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and
>> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the
>> > > formula and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance
>> > > Mark Williams
>> > > Snow Hill, MD
>> > > ______________________________________________________________
>> > > TheForge mailing list
>> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>> > >
>> > > TheForge mail list group photo site is http://www.shutterfly.com
>> > > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> > > Password: anvil
>> > >
>> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> > > freemab222 at gmail.com
>> > >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > TheForge mailing list
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From dhayes at dthayes.com  Tue Sep 30 17:31:44 2025
From: dhayes at dthayes.com (dhayes at dthayes.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2025 17:31:44 -0400
Subject: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
In-Reply-To: <07af8b3fc0da3fdf1a1bee2d64b7a1d7@smithlist.net>
References: <1603005224.665654.1758954838915@connect.xfinity.com>	<CAD1TJUY3=tgoQ+Buj_Lqs5NeOY8CaSpWQYAsSGhk1GkDW1Jagw@mail.gmail.com>	<1748312741.669480.1758985324293@connect.xfinity.com>	<005d01dc2fc7$df9e8ea0$9edbabe0$@dthayes.com>	<607726061.721307.1759216562671@connect.xfinity.com>	<001d01dc3246$40852780$c18f7680$@dthayes.com>
	<07af8b3fc0da3fdf1a1bee2d64b7a1d7@smithlist.net>
Message-ID: <002201dc3251$9f521a10$ddf64e30$@dthayes.com>

Lorne,

Absolutely. The same can be said for any source of information. Without exception sources have bias, and many have demonstrable factual errors, be the source internet based, scholarly research papers,, medical references, industrial handbooks, hobby books, or whatever. The need to vet and confirm remains the same. If I have a concern about AI, it is more over the bias being built into the training data repositories and vector databases. Bias is insidious. Factual errors tend to be a bit easier to pick up on. But, as you point out, they are there, and abundant.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of lorne at smithlist.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 4:19 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula

A word of caution on the AI. While very useful and a pretty big timesaver it is a master of slipping absolute fluff into its responses and wrapping it up so it looks like it belongs. I have even had it slip in simple math mistakes, something it really shouldn't do.

Verify everything when you can.

Cheers,
Lorne

On 2025-09-30 16:10, dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> AI can be very effective at digging deep into questions like that. The 
> amount of information being entered into the databases is downright 
> scarey (but that's another subject, more for forums like the old 
> ARTmetal mailing list). Not only does AI come up with deep dive 
> answers to direct questions but it also suggests where to go with the 
> answers and dive deeper. Anyway, here is the AI response to the direct 
> question on sources of high quality microcrystalline wax as well and 
> the first follow up question and answer. The responses can get quite 
> lengthy so I tried to keep it to a length appropriate for this list. 
> Questions and answers separated by asterisks. Hope you find it helpful.
> 
> **********
> 
> "Please find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax. General Wax 
> in California may be one. Are there others?"
> 
> **********
> 
> Yes, Daniel ? General Wax is one option, but here are several other 
> reputable suppliers of high-grade microcrystalline wax worth
> considering:
> ? Top Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> 1. IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> - Location: Texas-based, serving North America
> - Grades: Cosmetic, food, and industrial-grade waxes
> - Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 194?F; hardness from 7 to 36 ASTM
> D1321
> - Formats: Bulk liquid, granules, pellets, slabs
> - Highlights: Offers custom blends and has a fully integrated supply 
> chain
> 
> 2. Blended Waxes Inc.
> - Location: Wisconsin
> - Grades: BW-405 to BW-431, ranging from soft/tacky to hard/brittle
> - Specs: Melt points from 145?F to 195?F; FDA-compliant for food and 
> cosmetic use
> - Applications: Cosmetics, candles, adhesives, coatings, sculpting
> - Highlights: Over 45 years of experience in custom wax blends
> 
> 3. King Honor International
> - Location: China (bulk export available)
> - Grades: M70, M80, and hydrogenated variants
> - Certifications: ISO9001
> - Applications: Chewing gum, cosmetics, dental materials, industrial 
> coatings
> - Highlights: Competitive pricing and broad product range for global 
> buyers
> 
> 1) igiwax.com
> 2) blendwaxes.com
> 3) www.khonorwax.com
> 
> If you're looking for domestic sourcing with high purity and 
> customization, IGI and Blended Waxes are especially strong contenders.
> Want help comparing melt points, oil content, or bulk pricing across 
> these? I can model that next.
> 
> **********
> 
> "yes"
> 
> **********
> 
> Here are several verified sources for high-grade microcrystalline wax, 
> including General Wax and others that cater to industrial, cosmetic, 
> and conservation-grade needs:
> ? Verified Suppliers of Microcrystalline Wax
> 
> Supplier:
> Location:
> Grade Offered:
> Notable Features:
> 
> Supplier: General Wax & Candle Co.
> Location: North Hollywood, CA
> Grade Offered: Cosmetic, candle, industrial Notable Features: Known 
> for custom blends and bulk supply
> 
> Supplier: IGI Wax (International Group, Inc.)
> Location: Houston, TX
> Grade Offered: Food, cosmetic, industrial Notable Features: Offers 
> high-purity waxes with detailed spec sheets
> 
> Supplier: Blended Waxes Inc.
> Location: Oshkosh, WI
> Grade Offered: BW-405 to BW-431
> Notable Features: FDA-compliant, tailored blends for conservation and 
> cosmetics
> 
> Supplier: Paramelt B.V.
> Location: Netherlands (global distribution) Grade Offered: 
> Microcrystalline and paraffin blends Notable Features: High-end waxes 
> for packaging, coatings, and pharma
> 
> Supplier: King Honor International
> Location: China
> Grade Offered: M70, M80, hydrogenated
> Notable Features: Bulk export, ISO-certified, competitive pricing
> 
> Supplier: Strahl & Pitsch Inc.
> Location: West Babylon, NY
> Grade Offered: SP-89, SP-105, SP-179
> Notable Features: Premium grades for cosmetics, dental, and 
> conservation use
> 
> ? Tips for Sourcing
> ?	Conservation-grade: Strahl & Pitsch is often preferred for museum and 
> archival use (e.g., Renaissance Wax replication).
> ?	Bulk industrial: IGI and Paramelt offer robust supply chains and 
> technical support.
> ?	Custom blends: Blended Waxes and General Wax are flexible for 
> small-batch or specialty formulations.
> 
> Would you like help comparing melt points, oil content, or sourcing 
> samples for testing? I can model specs or help draft outreach language.
> 
> **********
> 
> Getting the above answers took seconds, re-formatting the table into 
> test-only mailing list format much longer.
> 
> AI is an incredibly useful research tool but it can also be deep and 
> tempting  rabbit hole to fall into.
> 
> Dan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
> TheForge
> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 3:16 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
> 
> Dan,
> If you can find a source for high-grade microcrystalline wax let me 
> know. I found one source as General Wax located in California. In 
> looking through my collection of old containers, I found some wax I 
> had made a long while ago but the spirit has gone. I'll try to melt 
> this outdoors and mix white spirit with it, storing the result in 
> screwtop glass jars so the spirits don't depart.
> 
> Mark
> Snow Hill, MD
>> On 09/27/2025 12:00 PM EDT dhayes at dthayes.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I've been using search engines like Google for years to research and 
>> look up just about everything and have always been amazed at how much 
>> information is out there and how effective you can be at finding it.
>> AI is taking it to a whole new level. I entered the following in 
>> Copilot (more business oriented, probably not the best AI tool for 
>> researching something like this):
>> 
>> "What is the formula Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow 
>> some years ago for microcrystalline wax & white spirits and that 
>> replicated Renaissance Wax?"
>> 
>> The following is what AI had to say:
>> 
>> *****
>> Brian Gilbert?s formula, published in The Hammer?s Blow (a 
>> publication of the Artist-Blacksmith?s Association of North America), 
>> was a DIY attempt to replicate the properties of Renaissance Wax 
>> using accessible materials. While the exact article isn't publicly 
>> archived online, the formula he shared has circulated widely among 
>> conservation and metalworking communities. Here's the core recipe 
>> attributed to
>> Gilbert:
>> ? Brian Gilbert?s Renaissance Wax Replica Formula
>> - Microcrystalline wax: 1 part by weight
>> - White spirits (mineral spirits): 2 parts by weight
>> ? Preparation Notes
>> - Gently heat the white spirits in a double boiler setup (never over 
>> direct flame due to flammability).
>> - Slowly add the microcrystalline wax, stirring until fully dissolved.
>> - Allow the mixture to cool and solidify in a sealed container.
>> This blend mimics the consistency and protective qualities of 
>> Renaissance Wax?clear, non-acidic, and moisture-resistant?ideal for 
>> metal, wood, and leather surfaces. Some users tweak the ratio 
>> slightly for a softer or firmer finish, and a few add polyethylene 
>> wax for closer fidelity to the original Renaissance formula.
>> 
>> Would you like help sourcing high-grade microcrystalline wax or 
>> adjusting the formula for specific applications like firearms, 
>> optics, or archival preservation.
>> 
>> *******
>> Anyway, AI makes researching arcane subjects easy (not that 
>> blacksmithing is arcane but much of what is published tends to be a 
>> bit off the mainstream).
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of Mark Williams via 
>> TheForge
>> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2025 11:02 AM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>; 
>> Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Renaissance wax formula
>> 
>> Thanks for the help. I wrote the info down. Seems that site wants you 
>> to join for monthly $$ in order to download. I'll let you know how it 
>> works.
>> 
>> Mark
>> > On 09/27/2025 8:13 AM EDT Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Hey, Mark,
>> >
>> > I don't have that issue, but I used my usual trick of searching the 
>> > internet (Google or Duckduckgo) with your phrase, "formula that 
>> > used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and replicated Renaissance Wax"
>> > and got a hit or two that way.
>> > https://www.scribd.com/document/333585278/Renaissance-Wax-Recipe#:~:
>> > te
>> > xt=The%20recipe%20for%20our%20Renaissance,1kg%20batch%20of%20combin
>> > e
>> > d%
>> > 20wax
>> > .
>> >
>> > All the best,
>> >
>> > Bruce
>> > NJ
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 2:34?AM Mark Williams via TheForge < 
>> > theforge at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Some years ago, Brian Gilbert published in the Hammer's Blow a 
>> > > formula that used microcrystalline wax & white spirits and 
>> > > replicated Renaissance Wax. I have misplaced my copy of the 
>> > > formula and hoped that one of you could remember  and send it.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance
>> > > Mark Williams
>> > > Snow Hill, MD
>> > > ______________________________________________________________
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