From freemab222 at gmail.com  Sun Nov  9 16:23:48 2025
From: freemab222 at gmail.com (Bruce)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2025 16:23:48 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Question for Jerry Frost on the T-burner
Message-ID: <CAD1TJUZZj939A=PjOb18NUF3dZvydn=A57JCP2zGM+ZVEToGzw@mail.gmail.com>

This came up on Reddit:
"In all the designs for the Frosty Tee Burner (which I am about to build
and experiment with) there neither seems to be any way to adjust the flame
short of shortening the mig jet. Is there already some magic in the ratio
of the openings of the tee relative to the pipe size that just makes the
flame correct without having to adjust the air? Or am I missing something?"

I've never worked with these burners so couldn't field the question.  I'll
post the answer if Frosty doesn't first.

Bruce
NJ

From akfrosty at mtaonline.net  Sun Nov  9 17:16:13 2025
From: akfrosty at mtaonline.net (JERRY FROST)
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2025 17:16:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [TheForge] Question for Jerry Frost on the T-burner
In-Reply-To: <CAD1TJUZZj939A=PjOb18NUF3dZvydn=A57JCP2zGM+ZVEToGzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD1TJUZZj939A=PjOb18NUF3dZvydn=A57JCP2zGM+ZVEToGzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1358078263.6362640.1762726573468.JavaMail.zimbra@mtaonline.net>

Once you tune a T burner properly there is no reason to adjust the fuel air ratio, The flame burns at a nearly flat ratio from minimum to maximum stable psi.

What size burner mixing tube are you building? I designate them by mixing tube size and wrote the plans I published for a 3/4" burner. The length of the tube is an 8:1 ratio based on the dia. So, .75 x 8 = 6" The tube length should be 6" for a 3/4" burner. You can make it longer but not much.

The T should be 3/4" x 1" 3/4" being the drop and 1" being the run. A plumbing T fitting the Top of the T is the "Run" this would be the water supply run, the "Drop" is where a faucet or whatever connects into the run. If that's not clear, The vertical shaft of a capital T is the drop, the cross bar is he run. 

Assuming you have the brass fitting threaded into the top of the T so the mig tip is aimed straight down the center of the mixing tube you can look through the intake ports (Run) and the end of the mig tip (jet).

The throat of the mixing tube is where the very end is in the T. The farther the Jet is away from the throat the greater the ratio of air per propane is induced. The induction ratio if darn near flat so increasing or reducing propane psi has insignificant effect on the flame properties. A neutral flame at 8psig will be neutral at 16psig as it will at 5psig. IF you manage to make a T that will hold a stable flame at really low psig.

So, YES once you have tuned the burner it needs no other method of controlling air intake. Plans on the net that say it does are made by people who couldn't follow the directions. 

NO, do NOT put the jet in the mixing tube, it will not induce sufficient air and invariably results in a T burner that burns lean and requires choke plates on the intakes.

My 3/4" burners use a 0.035" mig contact tip. The departure point is trimmed to approx 1/2 way across the intake ports as seen looking through them. When I trim a tip I either file it in a way the teeth on a fine single cut file cuts away from the hole so as not to roll the edges and distort the orifice. I trim by small increments 1/16" max to start. 

When I've shortened the jet length I clean the orifice with a torch tip file, preferably from the threaded end out and do NOT over do it or these little files will distort the jet. You only want to deburr and smooth the orifice. Maintaining a smooth laminar flow from the jet is really important.

Trim and deburr the jet and test the burner. Test it in the forge, not a vise on the bench. The back pressure caused by burning in a forge chamber effects how well it induces combustion air so testing in a vise isn't going to burn the same in the forge.

Don't get silly with the flare, a bell reducer is pretty worthless as a flare. The reason for a flare is NOT as a flame holder as in other burners, it lowers the psi in the stream of the air fuel mix. While this does slow the velocity some, the real benefit is lowering the pressure and increasing the burner's induction so you can design it with a larger propane jet and still maintain a neutral flame.

I've found a 3/4" pipe "Thread Protector" screwed on the output end of the mixing tube makes an excellent "flare." The OD of the thread protector isn't so much larger than the OD of the mixing tube you have to make a huge burner port or try to screw it on the tube inside the forge. 

That's a basic rundown of building a T burner. If you'll link me to the plans you're following I'll let you know if they're a good set. I can link you to a more developed set than that I published in one of the ABANA magazines. Unfortunately I published those on Iforgeiron dot com and would run into copy right issues if I post the plans here. I don't know if I can post a link to the Burners 101 section of Iforge without running afowl of theforge.list  rules.

Do we have a new list mom? Can someone tell me if I can post links to other blacksmith sites here, please?

Frosty

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2025 12:23:48 PM
Subject: [TheForge] Question for Jerry Frost on the T-burner

This came up on Reddit:
"In all the designs for the Frosty Tee Burner (which I am about to build
and experiment with) there neither seems to be any way to adjust the flame
short of shortening the mig jet. Is there already some magic in the ratio
of the openings of the tee relative to the pipe size that just makes the
flame correct without having to adjust the air? Or am I missing something?"

I've never worked with these burners so couldn't field the question.  I'll
post the answer if Frosty doesn't first.

Bruce
NJ

From lp.brown at verizon.net  Mon Nov 17 16:21:09 2025
From: lp.brown at verizon.net (LAWRENCE BROWN)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 16:21:09 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Grasshopper Treadle Hammer Plans Online?
In-Reply-To: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B0B591A-11F8-40B1-A630-27696391AA5E@verizon.net>

Maybe just put in a statement, that if a person wants to, they can change some of the bolted connections to welded. This should be decided on by them or a competent welder. 
Larry Brown

> On Oct 28, 2025, at 10:05?PM, Bruce <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Some of you may remember my Grasshopper Treadle Hammer.  Back a decade or
> more, I sold plans for this hammer via ebay.  I quit doing that because I
> couldn't even break even on it.  (It's about 120 pages and I sold it in a
> binder.)
> I'm thinking of posting it online for viewing and there are a couple
> considerations I need mull over before I could do that.
> 
>   1. Should I revise the plans first, and, if so, how?  When I designed
>   this treadle hammer, I did not myself know how to weld.  Accordingly, some
>   of the assembly is by screws and bolts, and some of these might better be
>   welded.  In principal, I could modify all relevant drawings to indicate
>   welds, but this could take a long time to accomplish as it would be a fair
>   investment in time (always short).  Alternatively, I could annotate where
>   welding be recommended in lieu of the indicated fasteners, either on the
>   drawings themselves, or on a separate sheet listing such changes, the
>   latter being the least work & time required.
>   2. Where could I post it?  Perhaps on my Grasshopper webpage -- if it
>   can accept this quantity of drawings.  Perhaps in Google Docs, in which
>   case I'd want some way of limiting access to read-only. (I think that can
>   be done, but haven't used Gdocs enough to know.)
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Bruce
> NJ
> ______________________________________________________________


From lorne at smithlist.net  Mon Nov 17 17:15:32 2025
From: lorne at smithlist.net (lorne at smithlist.net)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 17:15:32 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Grasshopper Treadle Hammer Plans Online?
In-Reply-To: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e90f7aae0751a2c055c88bf9b286c97a@smithlist.net>

I can put it on https://smithlist.net if you like, it gets a fair bit of 
traffic.

Cheers,
Lorne

On 2025-10-28 22:05, Bruce wrote:
> Some of you may remember my Grasshopper Treadle Hammer.  Back a decade 
> or
> more, I sold plans for this hammer via ebay.  I quit doing that because 
> I
> couldn't even break even on it.  (It's about 120 pages and I sold it in 
> a
> binder.)
> I'm thinking of posting it online for viewing and there are a couple
> considerations I need mull over before I could do that.
> 
>    1. Should I revise the plans first, and, if so, how?  When I 
> designed
>    this treadle hammer, I did not myself know how to weld.  
> Accordingly, some
>    of the assembly is by screws and bolts, and some of these might 
> better be
>    welded.  In principal, I could modify all relevant drawings to 
> indicate
>    welds, but this could take a long time to accomplish as it would be 
> a fair
>    investment in time (always short).  Alternatively, I could annotate 
> where
>    welding be recommended in lieu of the indicated fasteners, either on 
> the
>    drawings themselves, or on a separate sheet listing such changes, 
> the
>    latter being the least work & time required.
>    2. Where could I post it?  Perhaps on my Grasshopper webpage -- if 
> it
>    can accept this quantity of drawings.  Perhaps in Google Docs, in 
> which
>    case I'd want some way of limiting access to read-only. (I think 
> that can
>    be done, but haven't used Gdocs enough to know.)
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> Bruce
> NJ
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to lorne at smithlist.net

From jlpservicesinc at gmail.com  Mon Nov 17 21:48:27 2025
From: jlpservicesinc at gmail.com (J. Petrila)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 21:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TheForge] Grasshopper Treadle Hammer Plans Online?
In-Reply-To: <e90f7aae0751a2c055c88bf9b286c97a@smithlist.net>
References: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<e90f7aae0751a2c055c88bf9b286c97a@smithlist.net>
Message-ID: <CALar+xmVqRC_RyWLYes_gj2CPr5_nLzHqB-w4ZQAv=mPA9Pcbg@mail.gmail.com>

I'd buy a set of plans and binder right now.

I went looking not long ago for cricket plans and was out of luck.

Let's do this.  Thanks Jennifer

JLP Services Inc
6 Kenwood Dr
Rutland, MA 01543-1215

1 (508) 667-5498

On Mon, Nov 17, 2025, 5:15?PM <lorne at smithlist.net> wrote:

> I can put it on https://smithlist.net if you like, it gets a fair bit of
> traffic.
>
> Cheers,
> Lorne
>
> On 2025-10-28 22:05, Bruce wrote:
> > Some of you may remember my Grasshopper Treadle Hammer.  Back a decade
> > or
> > more, I sold plans for this hammer via ebay.  I quit doing that because
> > I
> > couldn't even break even on it.  (It's about 120 pages and I sold it in
> > a
> > binder.)
> > I'm thinking of posting it online for viewing and there are a couple
> > considerations I need mull over before I could do that.
> >
> >    1. Should I revise the plans first, and, if so, how?  When I
> > designed
> >    this treadle hammer, I did not myself know how to weld.
> > Accordingly, some
> >    of the assembly is by screws and bolts, and some of these might
> > better be
> >    welded.  In principal, I could modify all relevant drawings to
> > indicate
> >    welds, but this could take a long time to accomplish as it would be
> > a fair
> >    investment in time (always short).  Alternatively, I could annotate
> > where
> >    welding be recommended in lieu of the indicated fasteners, either on
> > the
> >    drawings themselves, or on a separate sheet listing such changes,
> > the
> >    latter being the least work & time required.
> >    2. Where could I post it?  Perhaps on my Grasshopper webpage -- if
> > it
> >    can accept this quantity of drawings.  Perhaps in Google Docs, in
> > which
> >    case I'd want some way of limiting access to read-only. (I think
> > that can
> >    be done, but haven't used Gdocs enough to know.)
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to lorne at smithlist.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jlpservicesinc at gmail.com
>

From edeccleston at att.net  Mon Nov 17 22:02:22 2025
From: edeccleston at att.net (Edwin Eccleston)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2025 03:02:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TheForge] Grasshopper Treadle Hammer Plans Online?
In-Reply-To: <CALar+xmVqRC_RyWLYes_gj2CPr5_nLzHqB-w4ZQAv=mPA9Pcbg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD1TJUa8NK+SivVxA5F=Y1uCrqP72v8_KheBFizCOBRgrn_wDA@mail.gmail.com>
	<e90f7aae0751a2c055c88bf9b286c97a@smithlist.net>
	<CALar+xmVqRC_RyWLYes_gj2CPr5_nLzHqB-w4ZQAv=mPA9Pcbg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1513190207.4970582.1763434942330@mail.yahoo.com>

 I would also buy a set. I want to set up a blacksmith shop at the Trade School I teach at.
Ed Eccleston


    On Monday, November 17, 2025 at 06:49:07 PM PST, J. Petrila <jlpservicesinc at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 I'd buy a set of plans and binder right now.

I went looking not long ago for cricket plans and was out of luck.

Let's do this.? Thanks Jennifer

JLP Services Inc
6 Kenwood Dr
Rutland, MA 01543-1215

1 (508) 667-5498

On Mon, Nov 17, 2025, 5:15?PM <lorne at smithlist.net> wrote:

> I can put it on https://smithlist.net if you like, it gets a fair bit of
> traffic.
>
> Cheers,
> Lorne
>
> On 2025-10-28 22:05, Bruce wrote:
> > Some of you may remember my Grasshopper Treadle Hammer.? Back a decade
> > or
> > more, I sold plans for this hammer via ebay.? I quit doing that because
> > I
> > couldn't even break even on it.? (It's about 120 pages and I sold it in
> > a
> > binder.)
> > I'm thinking of posting it online for viewing and there are a couple
> > considerations I need mull over before I could do that.
> >
> >? ? 1. Should I revise the plans first, and, if so, how?? When I
> > designed
> >? ? this treadle hammer, I did not myself know how to weld.
> > Accordingly, some
> >? ? of the assembly is by screws and bolts, and some of these might
> > better be
> >? ? welded.? In principal, I could modify all relevant drawings to
> > indicate
> >? ? welds, but this could take a long time to accomplish as it would be
> > a fair
> >? ? investment in time (always short).? Alternatively, I could annotate
> > where
> >? ? welding be recommended in lieu of the indicated fasteners, either on
> > the
> >? ? drawings themselves, or on a separate sheet listing such changes,
> > the
> >? ? latter being the least work & time required.
> >? ? 2. Where could I post it?? Perhaps on my Grasshopper webpage -- if
> > it
> >? ? can accept this quantity of drawings.? Perhaps in Google Docs, in
> > which
> >? ? case I'd want some way of limiting access to read-only. (I think
> > that can
> >? ? be done, but haven't used Gdocs enough to know.)
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > TheForge mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > TheForge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.shutterfly.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> > Password: anvil
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to lorne at smithlist.net
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jlpservicesinc at gmail.com
>
______________________________________________________________
TheForge mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net

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http://www.shutterfly.com
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This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to edeccleston at att.net   

From williamsiron at comcast.net  Mon Nov 17 23:10:37 2025
From: williamsiron at comcast.net (Mark Williams)
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 23:10:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [TheForge] Gichner Hammer In 2026
Message-ID: <659712818.840681.1763439037473@connect.xfinity.com>

To one and all,
 
The Gichner Memorial Hammer-In will be 2, 3, & 4 January 2026 at the ER Harvey Metalworking shop in Easton, Maryland. Our demonstrator is Drew Alexander. The cost is $70 which includes Friday night supper, Sat & Sun coffee & donuts, Sat & Sun lunch , and Sat supper. We will have an auction on Sat. There is plenty of space for tailgating. If you go to the MASA website you can find the registration  form. Please pass the news back to your various blacksmith groups, like BGOP or BGCM. You can look up Drew on the internet. He is an excellent smith coming to us from central Virginia.
 
Thanks,
 
Mark Williams
Snow Hill, Maryland

From restoreman123 at msn.com  Tue Nov 18 01:11:27 2025
From: restoreman123 at msn.com (Vincent Nakovics)
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2025 06:11:27 +0000
Subject: [TheForge] Grasshopper plans
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11723.1763434968.2991.theforge@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.11723.1763434968.2991.theforge@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR04MB7230278EB5265722D9A248EEFFD6A@SJ0PR04MB7230.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Bruce,
I'm with Larry - just add a statement that consideration should be given to all joints. Shoot just bolt and weld them - problem solved. They were/are solid plans as I remember them.
As to posting them. I haven't kept up with technology, but you could ask Grok for a solution. Hahaha

Thanks for considering this,
Vince -
________________________________
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of theforge-request at mailman.qth.net <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2025 4:02 AM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 223, Issue 2

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