[TheForge] Schmoozing. (was: Scrolling Tongs from Tinsnips?)

[Bruce .]

Well it's not just that I'm too nice a guy.  A key Director died a few
years back, and to keep the club going I picked up his duties.  I've since
recruited a number of new directors and they are contributing -- just not
enough yet.

It seems that the ability to organize events, or to write up reports on
events, etc. (talents I happen to have), is not all that common.  Some
folks will come through when pressed, but won't take the initiative without
considerable encouragement. Unfortunately, I'm better at doing those things
myself than I am at encouraging others to do them.

Time is also a factor.  One fellow got very active -- then changed jobs and
had to cut way back on his participation.

I believe I may not have communicated clearly what kind of tinsnips I
meant, namely this sort:
https://i.etsystatic.com/14471215/r/il/ba4b96/1373891703/il_340x270.1373891703_3m7m.jpg
You can see that that's not all that much metal to move.

I do like the idea of forging tongs from hoof nippers, though.  I pass up a
lot of those -- this is horse country.  It simply hadn't dawned on me that
they were tool steel, having not even thought about it.  I may start
collecting those on the cheap at flea markets.  I may have to mark any
tongs I make from them as "HC" (like RR spikes) to distinguish them from
quenchable LC tongs.

The idea of converting one tool to another appeals because of the time
factor.  That fellow who passed away got into a phase where he was making
hammers.  I finally prevailed upon him to make top tools instead -- much
the same process.  I can *buy *hammer heads at flea markets for a buck
apiece.  It's fine to know how to *forge *them, but why do so repeatedly
when you can buy them?

Okay, I know some folks are heavily intro traditional work, but that's not
me.  When HF finally came through with a cheap flux-core-wire welder, I
grabbed it!  I've since upgraded to a different brand, but also a cheap
one.  (I'm still contemplating getting an acetylene rig, the main obstacle
being lack of safe storage space.)

I actually did contemplate chucking up half a tinsnips in the lathe.  I
concluded the only feasible way to do it would be to mount it against an
angle plate mounted on a faceplate.  Possible, but it probably would take
me a day to accomplish, including the alignment tasks.  Definitely *not*
worth it.

Still, it makes me wonder whether something akin to a pencil sharpener (the
schoolhouse kind, with rotary spiral blades) couldn't be constructed using
two or three small tapered grinders.  Fun to think about, but there are
better ways.

All the best.

Bruce
NJ

On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 7:21 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:

> I got you on the time issues, we just added a puppy to mine so I get to
> watch her instead of spend more than maybe half an hour at a time doing
> what
> I want to.
>
> The problem with retirement is it's 24/7, Friday doesn't mean anything and
> there aren't any days off.
>
> Being a club board member is more a life curse than a good thing. Nobody
> wants to be a board member, folks just want to go to meetings and such. I
> got elected president of the Alaska club when I went to the bathroom during
> the first meeting I attended and getting someone else to do the "job" is a
> no go. Then again I refuse to do anything I don't absolutely have to, I
> even
> make them badger me into calling meetings to order. However to maintain our
> not for profit status there has to be an elected board so I'm in. Our
> required board meetings tend to be conference calls and rare.
>
> You're too nice a guy to let them shove so many jobs on you. Want to be
> president of the AAB too? ;)
>
> I think you're misremembering making scrolling tongs from "tin snips"
> that's
> a LOT of steel to move the hard way, upsetting blades back into tapered
> round stock is a none starter in my book. Then what are you going to do
> with
> the handles? GAK! IF someone ACTUALLY did it that (roll eyes) way it was a
> desperation move or they just didn't know what they were doing. You see
> that
> on the web all the time, people who's only expertise is a camera and
> connection put up how to videos all the time. We spend more time trying to
> undo the bad ideas they spread than telling people how to do things right.
>
> The most expedient modifications from an existing tool to tongs I know of
> is
> from Hoof Nippers. If you want flat jaw tongs all you need do is a little
> bending. To make twisting tongs it'd take a little forging but not a lot.
> Seriously, just straighten the jaws, draw a round taper, reset the rivet
> and
> align the bits. It' about as straight forward as it gets. Drawing round
> tapers is a FIRST SESSION EXERCISE!
>
> Hoof nippers are pretty common, farriers replace them when they get dull
> like hoof files. They're light weight, medium high carbon steel I believe
> probably low alloy steel or you wouldn't see so many forged into tongs.
> It's
> still easier to forge scroll tongs from stock but modifying hoof nippers is
> easy enough and it's good steel. Do NOT stick them in the slack tub/bucket
> above red heat, they WILL become brittle, normalized is springy enough. If
> you want to forge them from stock I like 5/8" round 4140, it's forgiving of
> inexpert heat management, makes light weight springy tongs and works very
> well normalized after forging. You don't run the risk of micro fractures
> you
> do using coil spring for stock and don't need the skill sets necessary for
> evaluating salvaged stock. Or luck if you don't have the skill sets.
>
> You might look into side grip bits, you can use the length of the reins for
> leverage instead of twisting them lengthways. Just bend both bits 90* to
> one
> side in line with the reins of course. Does that make sense?
>
> A web search for "Round Nose Pliers" will hit many pages of round nose and
> jewelers pliers. Not that these are what you need but the bit shape is
> correct and there are pictures out the gazoo.
>
> A pair of modified duck bill pliers I used many years ago had one bit
> ground
> round and the other left flat, smoothed and narrowed. It worked nicely but
> I
> learned to forge scrolls on the face and haven't used scrolling tongs in I
> don't know how long. Other than to demo them.
>
> I'm a hobbiest with occasional (rare as possible) lapses into doing paying
> projects. Been one for better than 50 years now and I'm far from a pro,
> especially since the TBI. I may know the stuff but I'm no longer very good
> at doing it.
>
> There's nothing wrong with fabrication, I went to school to become a welder
> and fabricator. There's a good reason pro wrought iron shops like Yellin's
> have arc welders and fabrication floors. Who do you think invented steel
> fabrication other than blacksmiths? "Traditional" blacksmiths today sit in
> an air conditioned control room sipping a beverage as they watch computer
> monitors. Faster, better, cheaper is the only true "tradition" of the
> blacksmith. Picking a time period to limit your craft is a personal
> philosophical decision. Your shop your rules. (that's a 3rd person
> reference
> I'm not talking about you personally)
>
> If a person wants to work without electricity, use hand tools and all
> primitive methods it's a personal choice, just don't gripe to me about not
> being able to compete with modern methods and equipment. Heck the power
> hammer is ancient tech, been around since humans pumped water into their
> fields and noticed it was easier than buckets so they tried making paper
> and
> felting with water driven trips. Water powered grinding wheels are probably
> as old as copper blades but that's pure especulation on my part, water
> wheels are that old though.
>
> I ain't going to fault you for fabricating UNLESS you misrepresent it as
> wrought. THAT will catch a poo storm. ;) I like honest.
>
> On the other hand if you chuck hoof nippers let alone TIN SNIPS? 08 up in
> your lathe I'll make derisive jokes about you for years!
>
> I just asked about your work stations out of curiosity. I seemed to recall
> nesting anvil stands but I have dents in my head and remember things that
> sometimes weren't. Nesting hoods are easy enough and I can see nesting
> anvil
> stands though I MUCH prefer tripod steel anvil stands. They're more stable
> and I made mine to slide over the anvil for transport to act as an easy tie
> down. The rest of my kit goes in buckets. The gas forge final gas supply
> lines are copper refrigerator tubing and need protection but the Buffalo
> pan
> coal forge and blower fit where it's easy to load and unload. If I'm
> transporting a gas forge station it'll all fit in the Dodge Journey, the
> coal forge gets the pick up truck.
>
> We're holding a club single burner brick pile forge build clinic in a month
> or so. Recently K-26 insulating thermal tiles (light fire brick) have
> become
> available in Anchorage and not only do they have a working max temp of
> 2,600
> f. they withstand the fast thermal cycling of a hobby forge without
> crumbling like common light fire brick. Better, old type light brick cost
> in
> the range of $11. each and K-26 "bricks" run to $6.00 each. They still
> require a kiln wash to stand up to welding fluxes but that's no big deal,
> Metrikote of Plistex are currently popular effective products and Wayne Coe
> sells small quantities for reasonable on his website.
>
> We find ourselves as a club in a similar position. IF I'm reading you
> correctly. We're gaining members rapidly, experienced smiths are in the
> minority any time we get together. Forged in Fire is generating enormous
> interest in the craft and not only in bladesmithing though every boy wants
> to forge swords like every girl wants a horse. NO surprises there. ;)
>
> Every meeting we have a majority of attendees who have never hit hot steel
> so I find myself showing guys how to forge a taper so they can leave with
> a:
> S, drive or coat hook after their first time at the anvil. These guys have
> zip for equipment and any kind of blacksmithing tool is hard to come by and
> expensive in Alaska. Once we get them a propane forge they can afford and
> works we get to hold a field expedient anvil work shop.
>
> Just getting these guys geared up enough to start making basic tools is an
> effort. I'm NOT going to do things the HARD way to satisfy somebody's IDEA
> of how it should be done. Blacksmiths have NEVER worked that way or we'd
> still be using stone knives and pointy sticks.
>
> I just looked and there are a number of Youtube videos regarding converting
> hoof nippers into tongs, some long winded some pretty amateurish but
> they'll
> give you the idea. Just make the bits fit what you need, scrolling tongs in
> this case. I'm not a fan of trying to learn from Youtube videos but there
> are some good ones out there and sometimes all a person needs is an idea or
> two.
>
> Sorry about all the side tracks and how long winded I get. Later Bruce.
>
> Frosty
>
>