[TheForge] New metal alloys overcome strength-ductility tradeoff

Tue May 24 16:07:09 EDT 2016

Hi Rob,
I think what I was getting at is that most blacksmiths don't have or have access to optical pyrometers or other sensitive heat measuring equipment, computer programmed forges nor hammers that deliver exactly the force needed and no more, to shape these superalloys.  The forging range is often as narrow as 100F (2050 - 2150F) and a final blow at some (much lower) exact temp to deliver these amazing results.  The human hip prosthesis, where an alloy of Chrome, Moly and Cobalt when classically forged has a tensile of maybe 135,000, but if forged in the same manner, then followed by a final reducing blow at a specific lower temperature it can be near 200,000.  That is what the alloy is designed to do and capable of doing, but the smith is incapable of doing unless by happenstance.  Most highly alloyed materials used in aircraft (such as Waspalloy) can barely be moved even at bright yellow, with your best blow, your 3# hammer bounces off like it was made of rubber, maybe leaving a very small dent.   Then, there are alloys such as Rene 41, which can be forged,  but the forging can not be machined (Hense the reason for the hot isostatic press).  
The equipment used to forge these alloys, such as the Banning Hammer can be programmed to deliver a blow with 1# impact strength,  then the second blow over 4,000#.  I saw a demo where they put an egg on the lower block (anvil) and at speed so fast you could not see it move, the upper block (hammer) came down and struck the egg and retracted, cracking it but leaving it still in one piece, the second blow left a smudge on anvil, messy but fun to watch.
Mike 
Boston
Rob, check out this new Boeing/Caltech alloy:
 https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=new+boeing+alloy+on+danalion&view=detailv2&&id=7B01E44A850C7EB26F3ACFDB012C00EF1D165F95&selectedIndex=0&ccid=pZhpqFXb&simid=608009525786118514&thid=OIP.Ma59869a855dbed344f3eac861676fb41o0&ajaxhist=0

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Fertner <rfertner at cox.net>
To: 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA' <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2016 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: [TheForge] New metal alloys overcome strength-ductility tradeoff

Hi Mike,
I realize the odds of getting any new stock of any new alloy are pretty
slim. But sooner or later some of it will end up scrapped and scrounged.
Wichita is an aircraft town and we've come across some weird forging scrap
on occasion. So this new stuff will be a PITA to forge also.
Thanks.

Rob
Wichita, KS

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Michael via TheForge
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 8:38 AM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Cc: newenglandforge at aol.com
Subject: Re: [TheForge] New metal alloys overcome strength-ductility
tradeoff

Hey Rob,
I think to start with, we need to assume that the more alloyed the steel,
the more difficult it is to forge, and the lower the melting temperature.
The dual phase alloys and precipitation hardening alloys are much harder
when in the annealed state than standard quench and temper materials, i.e.
HRC 35 or higher when annealed, thus much harder to forge.  The forging
temperature forging range is also very narrow and you need at least a power
hammer to forge them.  The steel alloys developed in the 20th Century were
all developed to serve a specific purpose, stainless steels now number over
250 grades, again each to do a specific job, so if you are looking for an
alloy that is easily forged, easily forge welded, wide forging range, safe
to forge at lower temps, think low carbon or iron.   Also, these new
materials often require very specialized equipment to forge, as they are
first forged to an oversize, then (a dwell) allowed to cool from the initial
forging temp to a much low
 er temperature like 1400F, then the final blow(s) "warm work-harden" the
forging to very high strengths.  I'm not strong enough to do much reduction
of a piece at 1400F and even a small drop hammer wouldn't be able to do the
required reduction.  Then there is availability, most of us call these
materials "Unobtainable Alloys", as a smith, your chance of getting some to
try is near non-existent.
-Mike Schermerhorn
Boston

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Fertner <rfertner at cox.net>
To: 'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA' <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Fri, May 20, 2016 7:02 pm
Subject: [TheForge] New metal alloys overcome strength-ductility tradeoff

New alloys are being developed. I wonder how forgeable they'll be?

http://phys.org/news/2016-05-metal-alloys-strength-ductility-tradeoff.html

Rob
Wichita, KS

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