[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 150, Issue 5

steven mustangman1958 at hotmail.com
Sat Jul 23 23:31:29 EDT 2016 

In the air tool there is decompression. In a diesel you have compression and the resultant heat being concentrated, but in the air tool the gas is expanding cooling the gas and oil mixture. Therefor the auto ignition temp is not reached.
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Subject: TheForge Digest, Vol 150, Issue 5

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil (Harry Wise)
   2. Re: pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil (Jeff Wilson)
   3. Re: pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil (Craig S)
   4. Interesting new alloy (Rob Fertner)
   5. Re: Interesting new alloy (Ed Eccleston)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 16:28:41 -0500
From: Harry Wise <hlwise at me.com>
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: "terry l. ridder" <terrylr at blauedonau.com>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil
Message-ID: <764E0840-B321-4C30-9F31-8EB0ACD06B38 at me.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Compression is not a side issue in diesel engine as I understand it. Adiabatic compression is the ignition mechanism. When a gas is compressed it gets hotter. If that temperature exceeds the autoignition temperatures the fuel/air mix then you get combustion. Of course in a hydraulic system you have liquids which do not really compress so you do not get the heat build up. And like you said Bruce, there is no oxidizer in the hydronic system. Lets hope there is not anyway.

Harry Wise
Huntsville AL


> On Jul 22, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Bruce . <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> See my responses inserted below.
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:22 PM, terry l. ridder <terrylr at blauedonau.com>
> wrote:
>
>> hello
>>
>> while working on the truck with the impact tool, a question popped into
>> my mind. Wh
>> ?y does not the oil in an pneumatic tool, "diesel", i.e.
>> combust. there is compression and there is oil. I use mineral oil so I
>> am not entirely sure what conditions would have to be for mineral oil to
>> "diesel". I would not want to try diesel fuel or keresine.
>>
>
> ?Because you don't have a proper fuel-to-air ratio to support combustion.
> There would be little or no air?
>
> ?inside a hydraulic system, as air bubbles would defeat the purpose. Also,
> it's unlikely there'd be a source of ignition in any event.
>
> Compression is a side issue.  Compression is no?t inherently needed to
> support combustion.  It's needed to support engine operation, and, in a
> Diesel engine, forms part of the ignition process.  It also may change the
> ignition characteristics of a given fuel-to-air mix, but that's also a side
> issue w/ Re: hydraulic systems.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 14:34:04 -0700
From: Jeff Wilson <kc7pme at gmail.com>
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil
Message-ID:
        <CAHwy9HOkD75nPzKAiC2a=+W2ry0NcdavdtxG32aWLVJEin1ypg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

The replies I'm seeing here are addressing hydraulic systems, where as the
question was regards pnumatic systems.  What am I missing?
Jeff
A misty rainy day in the northwest.

"What appears to be coming at you is coming from you." -Jack Flanders

On Jul 22, 2016 2:29 PM, "Harry Wise" <hlwise at me.com> wrote:

> Compression is not a side issue in diesel engine as I understand it.
> Adiabatic compression is the ignition mechanism. When a gas is compressed
> it gets hotter. If that temperature exceeds the autoignition temperatures
> the fuel/air mix then you get combustion. Of course in a hydraulic system
> you have liquids which do not really compress so you do not get the heat
> build up. And like you said Bruce, there is no oxidizer in the hydronic
> system. Lets hope there is not anyway.
>
> Harry Wise
> Huntsville AL
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Bruce . <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > See my responses inserted below.
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:22 PM, terry l. ridder <
> terrylr at blauedonau.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> hello
> >>
> >> while working on the truck with the impact tool, a question popped into
> >> my mind. Wh
> >> ?y does not the oil in an pneumatic tool, "diesel", i.e.
> >> combust. there is compression and there is oil. I use mineral oil so I
> >> am not entirely sure what conditions would have to be for mineral oil to
> >> "diesel". I would not want to try diesel fuel or keresine.
> >>
> >
> > ?Because you don't have a proper fuel-to-air ratio to support combustion.
> > There would be little or no air?
> >
> > ?inside a hydraulic system, as air bubbles would defeat the purpose.
> Also,
> > it's unlikely there'd be a source of ignition in any event.
> >
> > Compression is a side issue.  Compression is no?t inherently needed to
> > support combustion.  It's needed to support engine operation, and, in a
> > Diesel engine, forms part of the ignition process.  It also may change
> the
> > ignition characteristics of a given fuel-to-air mix, but that's also a
> side
> > issue w/ Re: hydraulic systems.
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:03:06 -0700
From: "Craig S" <calvinjean2 at comcast.net>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil
Message-ID: <5DE127D34882487890F1A9E0946278C6 at CraigOffice>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
        reply-type=original

Correct.  And there is 'partial' combustion sometimes.   Similar to not
wanting to breathe air from an ordinary compressor with an oil crankcase
because it may contain CO from the oil getting past the rings.   Just not
the right mixture for 'real' combustion.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Wilson
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 2:34 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] pneumatic tools and pneumatic tool oil

The replies I'm seeing here are addressing hydraulic systems, where as the
question was regards pnumatic systems.  What am I missing?
Jeff
A misty rainy day in the northwest.

"What appears to be coming at you is coming from you." -Jack Flanders

On Jul 22, 2016 2:29 PM, "Harry Wise" <hlwise at me.com> wrote:

> Compression is not a side issue in diesel engine as I understand it.
> Adiabatic compression is the ignition mechanism. When a gas is compressed
> it gets hotter. If that temperature exceeds the autoignition temperatures
> the fuel/air mix then you get combustion. Of course in a hydraulic system
> you have liquids which do not really compress so you do not get the heat
> build up. And like you said Bruce, there is no oxidizer in the hydronic
> system. Lets hope there is not anyway.
>
> Harry Wise
> Huntsville AL
>
>
> > On Jul 22, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Bruce . <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > See my responses inserted below.
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:22 PM, terry l. ridder <
> terrylr at blauedonau.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> hello
> >>
> >> while working on the truck with the impact tool, a question popped into
> >> my mind. Wh
> >> ?y does not the oil in an pneumatic tool, "diesel", i.e.
> >> combust. there is compression and there is oil. I use mineral oil so I
> >> am not entirely sure what conditions would have to be for mineral oil
> >> to
> >> "diesel". I would not want to try diesel fuel or keresine.
> >>
> >
> > ?Because you don't have a proper fuel-to-air ratio to support
> > combustion.
> > There would be little or no air>
> >  >
> > ?inside a hydraulic system, as air bubbles would defeat the purpose.
> Also,
> > it's unlikely there'd be a source of ignition in any event.
> >
> > Compression is a side issue.  Compression is no?t inherently needed to
> > support combustion.  It's needed to support engine operation, and, in a
> > Diesel engine, forms part of the ignition process.  It also may change
> the
> > ignition characteristics of a given fuel-to-air mix, but that's also a
> side
> > issue w/ Re: hydraulic systems.
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
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> Message delivered to kc7pme at gmail.com
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 21:20:27 -0500
From: "Rob Fertner" <rfertner at cox.net>
To: "'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'"
        <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [TheForge] Interesting new alloy
Message-ID: <000301d1e551$f21d6760$d6583620$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"


Here's some new metallurgy.


http://futurism.com/physicists-combine-gold-with-titanium-and-quadruple-its-
strength/


Rob
Wichita KS




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2016 19:43:48 -0700
From: Ed Eccleston <edeccleston at att.net>
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Interesting new alloy
Message-ID: <9775DBCF-47B6-424F-B4C5-7D0E6329C66A at att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii


  Looked good.  But the link doesn't work.  Says the page cannot be found.  :(

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2016, at 7:20 PM, Rob Fertner <rfertner at cox.net> wrote:
>
>
> Here's some new metallurgy.
>
>
> http://futurism.com/physicists-combine-gold-with-titanium-and-quadruple-its-
> strength/
>
>
> Rob
> Wichita KS
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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