[TheForge] Brainstorming -- Trouble with trees (OT)

Sat Feb 6 08:30:00 EST 2016

Darn!  As usual, someone ALWAYS steals my best ideas before  I even think
of them!

I think the one Frosty described is closest to what I had in mind.

Phlip is right about mud grit not being the best idea for wood, but the
wire saw might not need much in the way of cutting power -- just some
ablity coupled with persistence.  Perhaps a soft iron wire wrapped twisted
together with a smaller hard steel wire with edges (i.e., square or
triangular, perhaps).
Volume of wood isn't the issue.  The idea was to bring down widowmakers
with least risk to oneself --  i.e., from far away.  I don't know whether a
wire saw would be a practical answer to that issue, it's just a thought.
As for jamming, no big deal.  Disconnect the jammed wire from the power
device and install a new wire at a slightly different point, perhaps from a
different angle.

That Husqvarna video is interesting.  (Did Samson's hair grow back?) Wonder
what happened to the building after they cut out that column.

Anyway, I'm wondering now whether a standard chainsaw could be adapted to
drive a wire (or non-chain-saw chain) to cut trees from afar.  Just
thinking ...

Bruce
NJ

On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 7:12 AM, ries niemi <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:

> What you are describing is what is known as a wire saw. There are many
> different types out there, ranging from 20 dollar models that are just a
> stick and ten feet of string, to multi-million dollar models that use a
> mile long piece of diamond coated stainless wire.
> The concept is very sound.
> The devil, as always, is in the details.
> Mud? depends on whats in it, how abrasive it is, and what kind of
> string/wire you use, and how well the two work together.
>
> The tried and true way is wire that is commercially impregnated with an
> abrasive, up to an including diamond.
> Fighting Kites, in Asia, use ordinary string, rolled in white glue, and
> then, while the glue is still wet, rolled in broken glass, which has been
> pulverized to fine dust.
>
> Here is a cute little contractor size model-
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/construction/innovations/wire-saw/ <
> http://www.husqvarna.com/us/construction/innovations/wire-saw/>
>
> these guys cut up bridges, nuclear power plants, and other gigantic things
> with one-
> http://www.cuttingtechnologies.com/services_wire_sawing.html <
> http://www.cuttingtechnologies.com/services_wire_sawing.html>
>
> so, you could certainly do this. What type of wire, and what type of mud,
> may take some time and experimentation to figure out, of course.
>
> ries
>
>
> > On Feb 6, 2016, at 3:55 AM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:
> >
> > Sometime in the early '80s I was visiting the Folks in Portola Ca. A
> friend
> > and I hit the Ponderosa Ranch. On display was a 17hp steam traction
> engine
> > that pulled a land train from St. Louis IIRC pre-civil war. Anyway, being
> > steam powered it burned wood, lots of wood.
> >
> > As part of the display was the chain saw. The chain was your basic tie
> down
> > type with triangular points welded in the center of each link. There was
> a
> > sprocket that could be mounted on several PTO points. The chain was
> hauled
> > around the target tree and reconnected in a loop. The traction engine
> backed
> > up till the chain was tight and the pto engaged. The chain simply fed
> like
> > the chain on a bicycle and it sawed through the tree.
> >
> > Once felled it was skidded back to the engine, bucked with the onboard
> > circle saw and loaded in the tender.
> >
> > Jer
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Bruce
> > .
> > Sent: Friday, February 5, 2016 7:56 PM
> > To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Brainstorming -- Trouble with trees (OT)
> >
> > It's been a few years since this thread, but I just got another idea.  I
> > just watched a YouTube video of a guy sawing through PVC pipe using
> nothing
> > but string.  Of course, that's plastic, not wood, but ROCK can be sawn
> with
> > a mudsaw which is nothing more than a flexible wire carrying grit.
> >
> > So, why not a mudsaw for trees?  Imagine a wire wrapped halfway (or maybe
> > once and a half?) around a tree (or tree limb), each end of which is
> > connected to a reciprocating pulley.  I'm envisioning the wire moving at
> > least several tree diameters in each direction before reversing
> direction.
> > Alternatively, the wire could run continuously in one direction --
> whichever
> > is easier to implement.  I suggest the former because the latter
> requires a
> > full loop of wire, and that might be more difficult to get around a tree.
> >
> > Now to work, the wire needs to be carry grit. We also don't want to be
> > nearby if the wire breaks (under tension).  Solve both problems by using
> > semi-rigid tubing around the wire.  The tubing acts as a safety if the
> wire
> > snaps. It also can be used to transport grit to the wire, which the wire
> > carries to the tree, just like a mudsaw for rock.
> >
> > I'm envisioning the mud to be like toothpaste with coarser grit.  Maybe
> 100
> > grit -- I don't know.  Suspend the grit in something non-polluting, like
> > soap softened to toothpaste consistency.
> >
> > A variation on this might be to use a common chain (not a chainsaw chain)
> > instead of a wire.  Possibly it would be easier to power a chain, but a
> > mudsaw doesn't work by power but by patience, so that might not matter.
> >
> > Why bother with all this?  Because you could operate this thing remotely
> > from the tree.  It's low tech and possibly safer than other common
> methods.
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Bruce
> > NJ
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 6:21 PM, Jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The only maple we have here are ornamental, need special care and
> >> don't get large. One of my therapists grew up in Wa. in a loging
> >> family so, seeing as how I ended up in his office we talk cutting
> >> timber. I was passing on info I picked up from him about vine maple.
> >> Seems they get to be mid sized trees where he worked. I'll have to ask
> >> for more details next time we talk.
> >>
> >> Jer
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <wmullett at bright.net>
> >> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 8:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Brainstorming -- Trouble with trees (OT)
> >>
> >>
> >>> I had to look up a Vine Maple - non around here.  But it says they are:
> >>> "Maple Family (Aceraceae). Vine maple is a native, deciduous shrub or
> >> small
> >>> tree that ranges between ten to twenty feet."
> >>>
> >>> If only 20' tall it seems like they can't be too dangerous.  I have
> >>> seen
> >> a
> >>> 20" Dia plus tree rotate about 180 degrees when cut while still
> >>> standing on the stump.  Scared the heck out of all of us.  There can
> >>> be some real built-in stresses in some tress.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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