[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 134, Issue 10

Carson Pate caintuckrifle at gmail.com
Mon Mar 9 09:26:24 EDT 2015 

I have one I used for some time that sounds nearly identical to what you have here. Mine was making noise and rattling, when I investigated I found that the blades were riding and hitting on the cast iron cover. The shaft on mine had a slight taper at each end that fit into the frame with oil ports and two pointed bolts that sat parallel and centered with the ends of the shaft. For me it was a matter of loosening and tightening the bolts until the fan sat balanced and centered. Hope this helps!

Sent from my iPod

On Mar 5, 2015, at 8:48 PM, theforge-request at mailman.qth.net wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>  1. Re: A Balancing act (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>  2. Re: A Balancing act (CGRAF)
>  3. Re: A Balancing act (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>  4. Re: A Balancing act (Steve Bloom)
>  5. Re: A Balancing act (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 13:49:34 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] A Balancing act
> Message-ID: <6FB3EE0D-C1F3-4102-A3A4-01DD6625FD98 at thegrid.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Steve;
> If you literally have rattling, then something?s loose , plus out of true, or balance , or your bushings/bearings are shot.
> 
> On Mar 5, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com> wrote:
> 
> On 3/5/2015 9:55 AM, CGRAF wrote:
>> How sudden was this?
>> How exactly is the motor power transferred to the blower?
> It's been a slowly growing concern -- it was never quiet but 'rattling' is fairly new or maybe I'm just hearing it more since I have been teaching a bit and that means less earplug time.
> 
> The unit is an old large (18" snail) champion blower with ~10" diameter blades propeller running on a 0.75" keyed shaft.  The shaft is ~ 18" long with one pillow block almost touching the side of blower and the other ~ 12" away. A pulley is midway between the blocks and talking to a 1 HP 120V motor. The ratio of the pulleys and the motor's speed generates ~ 3400 rpm.  Run by itself, the motor is virtually silent. The shaft appears to be straight (based on spinning it on a lathe) and hand spinning the unit is easy - no resistance and no sound (of course, that's at maybe 60 rpm).  The sound is present with or without the "snail" bolted in place.  The fan has obviously been balanced in the past, i.e. globs of weld/braze on some of the fan blades.  Immediate 'cure' is to ignore it or slow the rpm down.  Eventual solution could be to beef up the shaft (1.25" shaft turned down to 0.75"), opening the access port in the backing plate for the larger shaft, and replace the pillow block
> s - which will probably mean redoing the mount system.   The obvious first step is to dynamically balance the fan - if I can figure out a reasonable procedure.
> 
> I've posted a few images at ironflower.com/ironwork/blower.pdf
> 
> Steve
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 17:06:17 -0600
> From: CGRAF <adveniam at att.net>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] A Balancing act
> Message-ID: <54F8E169.4010806 at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> Again this is just me hitting the simple stuff first.
> How old is the belt and how often is the blower run?
> 
> Old belt can look perfectly fine but be stiff. If it sits wrapped around 
> the pulleys it can develop pretty substantial humps. Things can bounce 
> pretty good. speed would affect it.
> 
> Belts are pretty cheap. Also try futzing with the belt tension.
> 
> I am not trying to insult you with these suggestions. Actually really 
> bright people often go straight to the complicated answers.
> 
> Mike Graf
> 
> On 3/5/2015 3:49 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Steve;
>> If you literally have rattling, then something?s loose , plus out of true, or balance , or your bushings/bearings are shot.
>> 
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 3/5/2015 9:55 AM, CGRAF wrote:
>>> How sudden was this?
>>> How exactly is the motor power transferred to the blower?
>> It's been a slowly growing concern -- it was never quiet but 'rattling' is fairly new or maybe I'm just hearing it more since I have been teaching a bit and that means less earplug time.
>> 
>> The unit is an old large (18" snail) champion blower with ~10" diameter blades propeller running on a 0.75" keyed shaft.  The shaft is ~ 18" long with one pillow block almost touching the side of blower and the other ~ 12" away. A pulley is midway between the blocks and talking to a 1 HP 120V motor. The ratio of the pulleys and the motor's speed generates ~ 3400 rpm.  Run by itself, the motor is virtually silent. The shaft appears to be straight (based on spinning it on a lathe) and hand spinning the unit is easy - no resistance and no sound (of course, that's at maybe 60 rpm).  The sound is present with or without the "snail" bolted in place.  The fan has obviously been balanced in the past, i.e. globs of weld/braze on some of the fan blades.  Immediate 'cure' is to ignore it or slow the rpm down.  Eventual solution could be to beef up the shaft (1.25" shaft turned down to 0.75"), opening the access port in the backing plate for the larger shaft, and replace the pillow blo
> cks - w
> hich will probably mean redoing the mount system.   The obvious first step is to dynamically balance the fan - if I can figure out a reasonable procedure.
>> 
>> I've posted a few images at ironflower.com/ironwork/blower.pdf
>> 
>> Steve
>> ______________________________________________________________
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 15:24:53 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] A Balancing act
> Message-ID: <2BE46A88-890D-4852-9EF1-1192564C8352 at thegrid.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> Good Mike:
> Might as well toss in that, aluminum pulleys can wear irregularly with use, harder material to a lesser degree.
> Also, rubber V belts sometimes wear unevenly , especially around the lap joint.
> Last, if someone balanced the wheel with brazing rod and nothing warped?Then the amount of air resistance on individual vanes could also be irregular.
> 
> I shudder when i imagine balancing jet engine fans.
> 
> On Mar 5, 2015, at 3:06 PM, CGRAF <adveniam at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Again this is just me hitting the simple stuff first.
> How old is the belt and how often is the blower run?
> 
> Old belt can look perfectly fine but be stiff. If it sits wrapped around the pulleys it can develop pretty substantial humps. Things can bounce pretty good. speed would affect it.
> 
> Belts are pretty cheap. Also try futzing with the belt tension.
> 
> I am not trying to insult you with these suggestions. Actually really bright people often go straight to the complicated answers.
> 
> Mike Graf
> 
> On 3/5/2015 3:49 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Steve;
>> If you literally have rattling, then something?s loose , plus out of true, or balance , or your bushings/bearings are shot.
>> 
>> On Mar 5, 2015, at 1:34 PM, Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 3/5/2015 9:55 AM, CGRAF wrote:
>>> How sudden was this?
>>> How exactly is the motor power transferred to the blower?
>> It's been a slowly growing concern -- it was never quiet but 'rattling' is fairly new or maybe I'm just hearing it more since I have been teaching a bit and that means less earplug time.
>> 
>> The unit is an old large (18" snail) champion blower with ~10" diameter blades propeller running on a 0.75" keyed shaft.  The shaft is ~ 18" long with one pillow block almost touching the side of blower and the other ~ 12" away. A pulley is midway between the blocks and talking to a 1 HP 120V motor. The ratio of the pulleys and the motor's speed generates ~ 3400 rpm.  Run by itself, the motor is virtually silent. The shaft appears to be straight (based on spinning it on a lathe) and hand spinning the unit is easy - no resistance and no sound (of course, that's at maybe 60 rpm).  The sound is present with or without the "snail" bolted in place.  The fan has obviously been balanced in the past, i.e. globs of weld/braze on some of the fan blades.  Immediate 'cure' is to ignore it or slow the rpm down.  Eventual solution could be to beef up the shaft (1.25" shaft turned down to 0.75"), opening the access port in the backing plate for the larger shaft, and replace the pillow blo
> cks - w
> hich will probably mean redoing the mount system.   The obvious first step is to dynamically balance the fan - if I can figure out a reasonable procedure.
>> 
>> I've posted a few images at ironflower.com/ironwork/blower.pdf
>> 
>> Steve
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> TheForge mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
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>> http://www.shutterfly.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> Password: anvil
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> 
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> TheForge mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 22:34:34 -0500
> From: Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Cc: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] A Balancing act
> Message-ID: <54F9204A.1070208 at ironflower.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> On 3/5/2015 6:24 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Good Mike:
>> Might as well toss in that, aluminum pulleys can wear irregularly with use, harder material to a lesser degree.
>> Also, rubber V belts sometimes wear unevenly , especially around the lap joint.
>> Last, if someone balanced the wheel with brazing rod and nothing warped?Then the amount of air resistance on individual vanes could also be irregular.
> 
> w/o the fan -- it's quiet. New belt, used often, tension 
> readjusted......thanks for the ideas but...well....doesn't seem to be 
> the cause.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:48:09 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] A Balancing act
> Message-ID: <A99BA1DB-A491-49AF-9FAE-7061C2FE2470 at thegrid.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> 
> One last (?) thought. A slight looseness between the pulley and the shaft, or the locking key/allen head a bit loose could do that. Sometimes it only shows on one side of the pulley.
> I assume you turned it slowly under load and watched closely that the belt level doesn?t rise and fall in the grooves.
> 
> On Mar 5, 2015, at 7:34 PM, Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com> wrote:
> 
> On 3/5/2015 6:24 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Good Mike:
>> Might as well toss in that, aluminum pulleys can wear irregularly with use, harder material to a lesser degree.
>> Also, rubber V belts sometimes wear unevenly , especially around the lap joint.
>> Last, if someone balanced the wheel with brazing rod and nothing warped?Then the amount of air resistance on individual vanes could also be irregular.
> 
> w/o the fan -- it's quiet. New belt, used often, tension readjusted......thanks for the ideas but...well....doesn't seem to be the cause.
> 
> Steve
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
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> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 134, Issue 10
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