[TheForge] something I hope better than what was the theft of metal public

Wed Apr 22 12:20:38 EDT 2015

Good idea Bruce but lead boils at a much lower temperature than glass melts
and I don't know if steel floats on molten tin. I can look that # up though.

Cool, thanks guys if I can't get this to work I have another avenue to
cruise.

Phlip: I'll keep her in mind but the steel border seems to be THE problem
from the perspective of the glass artists I've talked  to. Plique a jure is
done with much thinner and softer bordering metals so they don't usually
crush the glass as they cool and shrink. 

Thank you.

Jer

-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 7:58 AM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] something I hope better than what was the theft of
metal public

     The L.O.F. plate glass plant is about 30 minutes North of here in
Rossford, Ohio.
The tin float tank was about 2 blocks long as I recall. I never saw the
entire process but did see the finished glass sheets get cut and stacked at
the cool end. I cannot imagine how many pounds of molten tin was in that
tank.

Bob Willman
The Eagle's Anvil
Bowling Green, Ohio
WB8NQW

And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed
their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these
liberties are of the gift of God?
That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my
country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep
forever.

Thomas Jefferson

On 4/22/2015 11:46 AM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> Didn't they usta make window glass by floating it on a pool of molten tin?
>
> On Apr 22, 2015, at 8:15 AM, Bruce . <freemab222 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> I just got another totally untested and hypothetical idea:
>
> Suppose you put a steel "cup" underneath that opening you want to fill
with
> glass, and partly fill the cup to the cross using lead.    NOW melt the
> glass in atop the lead.  The idea here is that the steel cup retains 
> the liquids, but the lead stays at the bottom.  The glass can't leak 
> through the liquid lead because it's much less dense.  Obviously, the 
> liquid lead level must be correct.
>
> Don't breath lead vapors, especially the oxidized fumes.  Good 
> ventilation is in order.
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Saint Phlip <saintphlip at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Frostig, post your questions to Carolyn on EK Metalsmiths list. She's 
>> a jeweler and lampworker- she may be able to help.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:47 PM, jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes Bruce I'm melting it not slumping. While it doesn't flow quite 
>>> like water it's amazingly fluid. Copper won't work as a dam unless I 
>>> want to fuse it to the copper but that has a whole different set of 
>>> issues,
>> mainly
>>> COE. Steel and most alloys of glass have very close COEs. And yes, 
>>> I've been giving it hours of temper time.
>>>
>>> Polished stainless steel is the norm for shaping and handling molten
>> glass
>>> and my first clamp is a flattened spoon with the handle bent around 
>>> for a clamp. Unfortunately being so much thinner and larger surface 
>>> area than
>> the
>>> crosses it heats faster and hotter so the glass sweats out between 
>>> the
>> two
>>> like solder. I had limited success with soap stone welder's "chalk" 
>>> but being a form of asbestos it's a great insulator making for an 
>>> uneven
>> melt.
>>> The glass didn't actually bond to the soap stone though so it's 
>>> still a possible backer. One of my most successful attempts was 
>>> carving a piece
>> of
>>> soap stone to fit in the negative space. Unfortunately the glass 
>>> only
>> fused
>>> rather than melting.
>>>
>>> I should mention what kinds of glass I'm using eh? Having poor 
>>> results trying to melt marbles for a number of reasons I decided to 
>>> try lamp
>> glass.
>>> I found close, it seems there are so few lamp workers up here they 
>>> all order from outside and no art glass studios carry rod. I bought 
>>> red noodles, long flat strips. They're used for art glass like 
>>> Chilhuly studios, not really lamp work glass but closer than marbles for
sure.
>> It's
>>> colors withstand heat much better than marble's colors.
>>>
>>> The noodle melted nicely but made for an uneven fill. The negative 
>>> space in a "Fredrich's" or "spread" is star shaped with points that 
>>> diminish to very small spaces. My next move was to buy red frit. 
>>> Frit conforms to the negative space nicely but holy macarel it 
>>> really reduces in volume when
>> the
>>> pile degasses. I was warned by the fellow at the art glass studio it
>> would
>>> really reduce in volume so I piled it nearly to its angle of repose. 
>>> The finished piece is about 1/3 full.
>>>
>>> The backing I've had the best luck with so far is the kiln paper, 
>>> ceramic paper similar to Kaowool. I got a good seal by putting a 
>>> LITTLE bit of Kaowool under the negative space so the paper would 
>>> conform to the cross more closely. Being spread crosses the bends 
>>> and twists used to open them leaves surface texture and flattening them
reduces their charm.
>>>
>>> There are kiln washes and investment casing media molten glass won't
>> stick
>>> to. The downside to both besides cost is neither would survive my 
>>> forge
>> if
>>> I actually wanted to do some forging and I'm not going to buy a 
>>> glass
>> kiln.
>>> Thanks for the questions and suggestions Bruce.
>>>
>>> I'm so new to messing with molten glass I have to develop a 
>>> vocabulary to even ask a good question. This ALMOST makes me wish I 
>>> lived close enough
>> to
>>> Anchorage to take a few art glass classes. Talking to Drew at the 
>>> glass studio was very enjoyable. Glass work and metal work appear to 
>>> share a
>> lot
>>> of vocabulary and processes if by different usage and terminology.
>>>
>>> Jer
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Saint Phlip
>>
>> Only President Obama could double the stock market, cut the deficit 
>> by 2/3, bring gas down under $3, get bin Laden, end 2 wars, bring 
>> unemployment down under 6%,  while fighting a government that is 
>> trying to destroy him, and still be told he's failing as President.
>>
>>
>> Heat it up
>> Hit it hard
>> Repent as necessary.
>>
>> Priorities:
>>
>> It's the smith who makes the tools, not the tools which make the smith.
>>
>> .I never wanted to see anybody die, but there are a few obituary 
>> notices I have read with pleasure. -Clarence Darrow 
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