[TheForge] OT: My floor is poured: the saga

wmullett at bright.net wmullett at bright.net
Wed Sep 17 09:39:32 EDT 2014 

Straw bales will not keep the dirt walls from collapsing over the winter.  Frost action will do that.

By rights, your walls needed to be done before the floor.  You still have plenty of time to do them.  Block is probably your best process since you don't seem to have any clean, easy to form areas.  Using the excavation as your outside form is not really practicable.   Using block will also allow you a backfilled area where you can place your footer drain and drain-able backfill so your basement might be dry.



---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:46:15 -0400
>From: "TheForge" <theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net> (on behalf of Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>)
>Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT: My floor is poured: the saga  
>To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>
>Will consider this, but any serious wind storm will threaten the 
>integrity of the structure.  The walls pretty well have to go up.
>
>One the positive side, spoke with the plant manager at the concrete 
>company and he will be coming out to see the situation tomorrow at 9AM.
>
>On 9/16/14, 7:17 AM, Bruce . wrote:
>> Straw bales!.  Make your basement walls a temporary straw bale structure.
>> completely removable.  Decent insulation in the winter.
>>
>> Bruce
>> NJ
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 12:19 AM, Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/8/14, 10:52 PM, jerry Frost wrote:
>>>
>>>> It shouldn't have started setting up even if they just let it sit half an
>>>> hour after pumping. That sounds like they added an accelerant at the batch
>>>> plant alright. Take a sample to the State Materials lab for analysis, the
>>>> concrete co. is picking up the bill. Have your lawyer charge it back.
>>>>
>>> I have now spoken with at least a dozen people in the area who do or have
>>> done concrete professionally and when I told the story, the first thing out
>>> of EVERYONE'S mouth was "calcium"... they must have put in calcium to
>>> accelerate the set.  But why?
>>>
>>>> High humidity weather can allow steam because it's already near the dew
>>>> point but the basement shouldn't have been appreciably hotter than
>>>> ambient.
>>>>
>>> Basement is notably cooler than ambient, typically, and was that day as
>>> well.
>>>
>>>> Did you try touching the slab or pile setting up in the driveway? I'm
>>>> almost
>>>> betting a letter of intent from a lawyer will start getting  offers to
>>>> settle out of court. Don't forget to add emotional distress, etc. etc. It
>>>> SHOULD cost them to keep you quiet. Suckers MUST pay.
>>>>
>>> Oh, I'm not going quietly on this one.  I've had quite enough of getting
>>> screwed around by these two half-wit outfits, thankyouverymuch.  Readymix
>>> company is not returning my calls... I'm a very forbearing person, but once
>>> you demonstrate to me your malice, I go for the carotids, which is the next
>>> move after giving them ONE more opportunity to make like a cowboy.
>>>
>>> As for Marco... that will be a bigger nut to crack as they have driven my
>>> cost to do what I need to do up by at least a factor of 4 or 5.  Engineer
>>> told not to cut footings for fear of another shear failure.  Already have
>>> one right in the middle of where those dildoes placed one of the
>>> brackets.Not more than 1/16 shift, but that 1/16 more than I wanted.  But
>>> because the $$ have now gone way up, I'm sure Marco will admonish me to
>>> screw myself, in which case I will have to get very serious with them...
>>> but that takes time and time we do not have in any reserve.  When it goes
>>> single digits, we are going to be in serious shit.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jer
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>>>> Andrew
>>>> Vida
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2014 7:52 AM
>>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT: My floor is poured: the saga
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/5/14, 3:13 PM, jerry Frost wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It is if he stopped for coffee or lunch. Once concrete starts to set
>>>>> it sets pretty quickly. A concrete company that screws up a pour like
>>>>> this will have people blaming others, it's the guy in the mixing
>>>>> tower, the guy in the truck, the finishers, etc.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, the one person they cannot blame is me.  The pumpers and finishers
>>>> were also blameless.  The mix appeared normal until about 1/2 hour in,
>>>> after
>>>> about 5 or so yards were put down.  All of a sudden it started hardening
>>>> up
>>>> very quickly and the finisher was not happy.  I didn't realize how bad it
>>>> was until a while later.
>>>>
>>>> These bastards are going to tell me to go scratch and then I will have to
>>>> take up my iron bars - there's the smithing content. :)
>>>>
>>>>> When you say it got hot, how hot?
>>>>>
>>>> The 7 yards remaining in the truck was putting off very visible vapors in
>>>> 90*+, 90%+ humidity.  It was not hot in the basement, so they cannot claim
>>>> that we should have known.  Everything seemed perfect until the very
>>>> sudden
>>>> and rapid change in the character of the mix.  Prior to that, I was
>>>> shoveling concrete up into the low spots because it was flowing well.
>>>>
>>>>      Concrete should get warm as it sets but even a 24" footing should be
>>>>> too cool for a bath. If a slab is getting hot, say steaming on a cool
>>>>> day it's a hot mix, either WAY past pour time or a hot mix from the
>>>>> batch plant.
>>>>>
>>>>> How'd your footings come out?
>>>>>
>>>> Sagged slab - integral footing.  3 runs of #5 rebar all four sides about
>>>> 2-3 inches from the bottom, right where it belonged.  Engineer friend said
>>>> one would have sufficed and that three makes for a very strong footing.
>>>> Footings average about 16" deep x 24 wide.  Floor is about 5"
>>>> average with a few thinner areas, perhaps 3.5"... still plenty, especially
>>>> with the mesh in it.
>>>>
>>>> My only concern now is whether it is too far out of level for a mason to
>>>> lay
>>>> block, if I choose to go that route, which at this point I may because the
>>>> forms are now up to about $5K and there is no possible way.
>>>> I'd planned on $500-$600, using the clay as the outer form, but the
>>>> imbeciles at Marco scotched that big time.
>>>>
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