[TheForge] Concrete forms OT, but important... for me anyhow.

Tue Aug 12 16:08:58 EDT 2014

Can't lay conderblock because of the columns holding the house up. As 
far as I can see, it has to be a poured concrete affair.  Look at this 
and you will see what I mean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOVT7uZMQLE&list=UUMXX2OBQ46aG0DEdhK04gIA

On 8/12/14, 3:50 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> Speedblocks are a bit different Jerry. They come with no knock out ends, but rather the ends are tapered.
> The surface bonding cement is GRC...or fiberGlass Reinforced Concrete with a lot of acrylic plastic additive in place of most of the water. That system saved laying the block in grout and, of course , forming.
> I actually had a building inspector look down inside a structurally critical corner before we grouted , and say...
> "Peter, that's too much steel. You have to leave some room for the cement".
> Ironically, now, years later, i have to drill a number of horizontal bolt holes through that area
> and don't look forward to it. We used a high strength grout too.
> A big walnut log is going to be installed as a corner post there.
>
> On Aug 12, 2014, at 12:30 PM, jerry Frost wrote:
>
> When I worked masonry we called these blocks "bond beams". We laid a course
> at specified distance and laid rebar through them to tie the wall together
> horizontally. As I recall the first bond beam course was at 4' rise and 4'
> intervals for walls higher than 8'. The wall is tied to the footing with
> vertical rebar stubs so the footing serves as the first bond beam.
>
> When I specified the footing and pony walls for this house I specified
> double rebar in half spaced bond beams so our bond beam courses are at 2'
> intervals and every vertical gap is reinforced. The entire pony wall is
> grouted solid. It's a "tad" over killed but that's what happens when the guy
> who designs a foundation spent 20 years on bridge and large building
> foundations in earthquake country.
>
> A bond beam block has ends but they knock right out with a tap of a hammer,
> rock or almost anything. Normal code for a bond beam course has the mason
> lay the knocked out ends in the space in the blocks to prevent the grout
> from filling the entire wall. There are verticals that get grouted and as I
> recall they're on 4' intervals, the knock outs are left out so the rebar can
> be laid vertically and grouted with the bond beam courses.
>
> Anyhow, when the mason laid our pony walls none of the knockouts were laid
> in the wall and it's solid concrete with WAY more rebar than called for by
> code.
>
> There is or was a dry lay cinderblock method. No mortar is used so
> calculating the wall height and length takes a little figuring before hand.
> Once wall and rebar are laid it's grouted solid and given a surface coat of
> mortar or grout. I have no idea why it's plastered in mortar/grout but
> that's what they were doing. I haven't heard anything about this method but
> I don't pay much attention to construction industry any more.
>
> Were I doing your project Andy I'd lay a cinderblock foundation wall and
> grout it solid. It's So much easier than laying forms and worrying about a
> blowout. If you think digging your basement/crawlspace was hard just think
> of digging out a few yards of set concrete.
>
> Jer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter
> Fels & Phoebe Palmer
> Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 9:35 AM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Concrete forms OT, but important... for me anyhow.
>
>
> On Aug 12, 2014, at 5:45 AM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>
> Care to elaborate on this?
>
> Never heard of speedblock.  Are you talking about 12" hollow block and
> filling the voids with concrete and rebar?
>
> Speedblock are like concrete block, but with open ends, and a half thickness
> crossbar...an H shape....Usually cheaper than concrete block too.
> Yes they have a groove for horizontal rebar and the vertical bar placement
> is the same. Yes, the cells are similarly grouted.
>
>
>
> On 8/11/14, 1:29 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Did our foundation  and retaining wall forming using 12" speedblock, lots
> of rebar, drystacked with surface bonding cement instead of forms. Poured
> the first 4' lift, vibrated to get the air out and pumped the top 4 ' a few
> hours later.
>> Faster and cheaper than forms and required less skill.
>> Backfilled over the french drain using junk styrofoam with a foot of
> leechrock on top. They were real eager to get rid of the bailed styro, no
> charge, even helped me load.
>> On Aug 11, 2014, at 9:34 AM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>>
>> Irregular on the bottom of the existing footings.
>>
>> I could cut the outside of the footings as well, but worry whether what
> remained (about 11-12" total width) would be strong enough to support the
> current load.
>>
>> On 8/11/14, 4:56 AM, Larry Brown wrote:
>>> Maybe see about renting them and just make the filler pieces  where
>>> it is irregular?
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