[TheForge] anvil repair
jerry Frost
akfrosty at mtaonline.net
Tue Apr 22 21:32:37 EDT 2014
Okay, I'm seriously out of the loop here, I didn't see the original post or
am I in a time warp? It's been what two years since I repaired that anvil.
Jer
-----Original Message-----
From: TheForge [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter
Fels & Phoebe Palmer
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 4:15 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] anvil repair
Respectfully:
Welding on an anvil is an act best reserved for desperation in my opinion.
Even with the best of rods and practice, the original " glass hard" surface,
and fine grain structure of a good traditional anvil is sure to be
compromised by the "HAZ" heat affect zone of weldments.
The boundary between the original face and the weld, unavoidably, will be
softer and have a coarser grain structure than the original face.
An anvil should last for many generations, and i don't believe a welded
anvil will.
I did a very careful and technically correct set of repairs on my 250#er,
and now, 25 or so years of heavy use later, there are hairline cracks
beginning to show in a couple of places and the HAZs show dings that are not
evident on the original face.
If your anvil is ruined...Jerry's methods are the best way to go.
On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:14 PM, Dann Johnson wrote:
Jerry is frequently, exactly on target.
I have welded up 4 old damaged anvils & after ground them down with a side
grinder and then to the "near" with a flap disk.
Strong, probably better than original.
No regretts.. Each time I heated the mass of the old anvil with a larger
weed burner propane burner, and after welding let it air cool.
At 02:24 AM 7/22/2003, you wrote:
> Jer, we've been doing it this way over 15 years and to my knowledge there
has not been a single failure. My 128# wrought anvil was the guinea pig and
we had at least 4 different rods in it to see which worked best including 2
by Stoody, the Hobart, and one other I do not recall. The Hobart was BY FAR
the best. That anvil sat in the shop at Allaire village for 2 or 3 years
being abused by all the newbies and other loons whom I have witnessed do
things to anvils and other equipment that demands shooting. The only divot
came out of one of the Stoody beads. The rest are immaculate to this day
and I have wailed on that little anvil a fair bit. My 106# PW is all
Lincore 50 and after more than 10 years not the smallest hint of a chip
anything along any of the still razor sharp edges.
>
> It is difficult to argue with success.
>
> On 4/26/2013 2:20 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
>>
>> These are ALL HARDFACING rods and wire!! ARGHHHHH!!!
>>
>> They're abrasion resistant and really unsuitable unless you're
>> planning on rubbing rocks on your anvil face.
>>
>> Use buildup rod or wire, it's intended to provdie an IMPACT resistant
>> substrate so hardfacing won't check and spall in flexion. Buildup
>> doesn't work harden, it's already impact resistant enough to take a
>> dozer's worth of abuse without denting or work hardening. You can lay
>> multiple passes without preheating, post heating or worrying about it.
>> It's designed to build up and replace LOST steel. It grinds well with
>> common stone cups or right angle disks,NOT blue or green wheels, just
>> plain old grinding disks and cups.
>>
>> GET OFF THE HARDFACING KICK! It's a myth and not only doesn't work it
>> damages anvil faces with all the BADNESS of over heating HC steel
>> faces!, It also causes many times the work to finish but I don't
>> really CARE if you guys want to do ten times the work neccessary for
>> a poor surface. I DO care about all the anvils hardfacing rod and
>> wire are ruining!
>>
>> I know of which I speak, I ran hardfacing rods and wire for 20 years
>> and had to clean up messes made by guys who THOUGHT harder was better.
>> DOLTS! Yeah, I've run a few THOUSAND lbs. of Lincore 50 and it's
>> superior for what it's intended HARD FACING, NOT anvil repair.
>>
>> Jer
>>
>> On 4/25/2013 5:10 PM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>>> Grind all broken areas until nothing but bright metal shows. Follow
>>> cracks all the way until they are no more. Preheat anvil to 400*
>>> even if manufacturer of hardface material says it is not needed. It is.
>>>
>>> Lay in your hardface material. Grind to your desired geometry. Done.
>>>
>>> The best electrodes we (NJBA) ever used was Hobart SmoothArc 600,
>>> but that does not come in wire - stick only. For wire we used
>>> Lincore 50, though I believe they have gone to Lincore 55 now and it
>>> works very well. I prefer material that goes on at full hardness.
>>> The work hardening materials are not to my liking. YMMV, of course.
>>>
>>> On 4/24/2013 7:14 AM, James wrote:
>>>> I know this has been discussed before but I need a refresher course...
>>>>
>>>> Bought an old (1856) William Foster anvil a few weeks ago. The top
>>>> is pretty flat but the edges are beaten off almost all the way
>>>> around and a couple places that appear to have rips or tears in the
top.
>>>>
>>>> According to the Postman book, Anvils in America it has a wrought
>>>> base and a steel top that was forge welded.
>>>>
>>>> If you were to attempt to rebuild the corners/edges of this anvil,
>>>> what procedure would you follow? And what electrodes would you use?
>>>>
>>>> My inclination is to clean it as much as possible, pre-heat to
>>>> about400 degrees F, weld the bottom of any holes that cannot be
>>>> cleaned without doing serious damage to the anvil with a 6010
>>>> electrode (because it tolerates rust and junk and penetrates
>>>> deeply). Then build up the surfaces with something like a 7018,
>>>> grind down, etc. (I've read the
>>>> 7018 works pretty well rebuilding an anvil.)
>>>>
>>>> I have an almost full 50# box of Lincoln Abrasoweld that I use
>>>> occasionally but don't know if it's for impact, abrasion or both. I
>>>> hesitate to use an extremely hard rod on an anvil. On the other
>>>> hand, in the 40 years that I've been welding I've used Stoody,
>>>> Hi-Alloy, Hobart, specialty rods etc. with generally good success.
>>>> Those rods used to be pretty common here (100 mi. NE of Dallas, TX)
>>>> but now you just about can't get any special stick rods (Ni for
>>>> cast iron being and Hi-Alloy
>>>> 500 the only exceptions).
>>>>
>>>> I presume this is due to the extreme popularity of MIG machines and
>>>> the guys using portable rigs only use 6010/11 and 7018 for most
>>>> work. All that to say, specialty rods are hard to find here and the
>>>> boys in the welding shops aren't very helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Would you go to the trouble to find a different rod selection than
>>>> what I have mentioned and what procedure would you recommend if
>>>> different from the above? Since Postman says the body of this anvil
>>>> is wrought - and I've never stick welded wrought iron - will I have
>>>> any difficulties if I get down into the wrought part?
>>>>
>>>> And one more question, just how well would a MIG w/ standard
>>>> off-the-shelf MIG wire and 92/8 or 75/25 shielding gas work to
>>>> repair an anvil?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> James
>>
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