[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 116, Issue 4

Thu Sep 5 02:28:21 EDT 2013

One thing that about doubles your efficiency is to inject the gas into the
feed tube just before a 90 deg bend. That causes enough turbulence that the
gases mix really well.
I' have the world's simplest forge and it's a great welder- one burner, all
the heat I want.

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 7:58 PM, <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. blown forge (Dan Scheid)
>    2. Re: blown forge (Ben Barrett)
>    3. Re: blown forge (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>    4. Re: blown forge (Paul Sperbeck)
>    5. Re: blown forge (Paul Sperbeck)
>    6. Re: blown forge (Steve Bloom)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 16:14:46 -0700
> From: "Dan Scheid" <damales at pollybutte.net>
> To: "'Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA'"
>         <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> I have a side draw burner venturi propane forge (used a tee for air intake)
> with time and tricks my forge gets to welding temps It is right at the 2350
> but I'm greedy . I want more heat 2600-3K  would be a dream so I'm thinking
> of adapting these burners to blown . Ether remove the mig tip or enlarge.
> Move it down past the intake add a fan to the side and turn down the
> pressure.  So here are my question.
>  1) do you think it will get me the extra heat?
> 2) can this venture design be adapted
> 3) what psi does blown work at 1-2? Or more
> 4) what size fan in cfm  should I be looking for my thought are a dc motor
> so I can put a rheostat on it although some AC motor can also.
> Thank for the input
> Dan Scheid
> Ps this is my 5th or 6th forge with venture burners  all from 3/4 tubes to
> 1" tubes this on is the 1" with I think a 2 1/2 tee but I can't remember.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 16:30:16 -0700
> From: Ben Barrett <stircrazyben at gmail.com>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAA-1Ar+ViQxQ_TnhAULefzevkM2bRLv5mzShhfWoy0cCFVKGeQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> >From my little experience, blown is easier to rig up, due to lower
> pressures & great variety of what-will-work :)  Venturi's require more
> tuning, but a well-made unit can be easy?you may want to polish the inside
> of the venturi since any interruption to flow there makes a difference.
>  Common blown fan is a hair dryer, usually with the heater coil removed
> (leaving part of the heater coil will give the air a nice preheat & dry
> though!).
>
> >From what I've read, it can be difficult to get a complete burn with air
> and propane, I'm glad I was able to get one of Art Anderson's burners at a
> NWBA conference.
>
> Have you considered adding a little bit of oxygen when you want forging
> temps?
>
> On a related note, I am curious if anyone's used an oxygen concentrator
> with propane or even natural gas?
> I have access to some used models, which the local glassblowers are not
> happy with since they use a huge amount of oxygen.
> I was thinking that even a trickle of oxy, along with a well-tuned venturi
> design, might be very efficient.
>
> Ben
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Dan Scheid <damales at pollybutte.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a side draw burner venturi propane forge (used a tee for air
> intake)
> > with time and tricks my forge gets to welding temps It is right at the
> 2350
> > but I'm greedy . I want more heat 2600-3K  would be a dream so I'm
> thinking
> > of adapting these burners to blown . Ether remove the mig tip or enlarge.
> > Move it down past the intake add a fan to the side and turn down the
> > pressure.  So here are my question.
> >  1) do you think it will get me the extra heat?
> > 2) can this venture design be adapted
> > 3) what psi does blown work at 1-2? Or more
> > 4) what size fan in cfm  should I be looking for my thought are a dc
> motor
> > so I can put a rheostat on it although some AC motor can also.
> > Thank for the input
> > Dan Scheid
> > Ps this is my 5th or 6th forge with venture burners  all from 3/4 tubes
> to
> > 1" tubes this on is the 1" with I think a 2 1/2 tee but I can't remember.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 17:52:10 -0700
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID: <2E0F127D-02ED-491A-9089-65A66B15971C at thegrid.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Easiest is probably to add another burner.
>
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 4:14 PM, Dan Scheid wrote:
>
>
> I have a side draw burner venturi propane forge (used a tee for air intake)
> with time and tricks my forge gets to welding temps It is right at the 2350
> but I'm greedy . I want more heat 2600-3K  would be a dream so I'm thinking
> of adapting these burners to blown . Ether remove the mig tip or enlarge.
> Move it down past the intake add a fan to the side and turn down the
> pressure.  So here are my question.
> 1) do you think it will get me the extra heat?
> 2) can this venture design be adapted
> 3) what psi does blown work at 1-2? Or more
> 4) what size fan in cfm  should I be looking for my thought are a dc motor
> so I can put a rheostat on it although some AC motor can also.
> Thank for the input
> Dan Scheid
> Ps this is my 5th or 6th forge with venture burners  all from 3/4 tubes to
> 1" tubes this on is the 1" with I think a 2 1/2 tee but I can't remember.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 20:09:48 -0500
> From: Paul Sperbeck <forge at wi.rr.com>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID: <5227D9DC.4050001 at wi.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> On blown burners the addition of a mixing stage will greatly help to
> achieve complete combustion. This prevents stratification of the gas
> will help get every BTU out that you stick in. Mine uses a couple of
> fixed fan blades in the air stream that stir up the air to promote
> mixing. One has a right hand twist the other a right hand twist. The gas
> is injected into the air stream between he blades. Before I did this
> part of the gas didn't burn inside the furnace cause the mixture was
> stratified. Talk about dragon breath...
>
> Johnson mixed the gas into the inlet of the air blower on some models.
> This works great but you need to make sure you rig a safety to turn off
> the gas if the fan fails.
>
> The orifice size is unimportant as long as you can get enough gas
> through it to achieve the BTU output you want. You need about 15 to 16
> times the amount of air relative to the propane. Its all about cubic
> feet with blowers. The propane injection pressure matters not.
>
> You could certainly add oxygen, but I think you should get the
> air/propane burner functioning first and experiment with oxygen
>
> Propane is about 2550 BTU per cubic foot. To get about 100000 BTUH input
> you need to burn about 40 CFH or .67 CFM of propane which requires a
> little over 10 CFM of air. You may need more fan than that to be able to
> force the 10 CFM into the furnace due to the back pressure of the
> furnace...
>
> have fun
>
> paul
>
> On 09/04/2013 06:30 PM, Ben Barrett wrote:
> > >From my little experience, blown is easier to rig up, due to lower
> > pressures & great variety of what-will-work :)  Venturi's require more
> > tuning, but a well-made unit can be easy?you may want to polish the
> inside
> > of the venturi since any interruption to flow there makes a difference.
> >  Common blown fan is a hair dryer, usually with the heater coil removed
> > (leaving part of the heater coil will give the air a nice preheat & dry
> > though!).
> >
> > >From what I've read, it can be difficult to get a complete burn with air
> > and propane, I'm glad I was able to get one of Art Anderson's burners at
> a
> > NWBA conference.
> >
> > Have you considered adding a little bit of oxygen when you want forging
> > temps?
> >
> > On a related note, I am curious if anyone's used an oxygen concentrator
> > with propane or even natural gas?
> > I have access to some used models, which the local glassblowers are not
> > happy with since they use a huge amount of oxygen.
> > I was thinking that even a trickle of oxy, along with a well-tuned
> venturi
> > design, might be very efficient.
> >
> > Ben
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Dan Scheid <damales at pollybutte.net>
> wrote:
> >
> <snip>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 20:46:01 -0500
> From: Paul Sperbeck <forge at wi.rr.com>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID: <5227E259.7050408 at wi.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
>
> On 09/04/2013 08:09 PM, Paul Sperbeck wrote:
>
> typo...
>
> One has a right hand twist the other a right hand twist.
> should be
> One has a right hand twist the other a left hand twist.
>
> paul
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2013 22:58:02 -0400
> From: Steve Bloom <sabloom at ironflower.com>
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] blown forge
> Message-ID: <mailman.7492.1378349896.25982.theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> At 07:14 PM 9/4/2013, you wrote:
>
> >I have a side draw burner venturi propane forge (used a tee for air
> intake)
> >with time and tricks my forge gets to welding temps It is right at the
> 2350
> >but I'm greedy . I want more heat 2600-3K  would be a dream so I'm
> thinking
> >of adapting these burners to blown .
>
> My purpose built Damascus forge has two venturi burners -- 0.040"
> orifices with a useable range of 5 to 15 psi on LP.  Volume of the
> forge is 18" x about 4" x 4".  I added a small squirrel cage, a flex
> 3" dryer hose and a box manifold that slips over the bells of the
> burners.  There is a slide gate in the flex hose-manifold
> interface.  At full blow, the 3000 F refractory starts to melt.  At
> half or less, welding heat for billets with O1/L6/203E are easily
> reached at 10 psi.  The maximum output of the blower is a slight breeze.
>
> If anyone is interested, I can post a image of the rig on my website.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 116, Issue 4
> ****************************************
>

-- 
"You can never make the same mistake twice: The second time you do it, it's
a choice."