[TheForge] Making needles?

Tue Oct 15 13:37:10 EDT 2013

Bruce, if it was me, i'd take a length of music wire, clamped to a grooved plate under a small torch, 
 flatten every few inches...then do a series of tiny slit and drifts by hand until i came up with a few passable examples, cut, then toss the rest. You don't need a lot of them.

On Oct 15, 2013, at 8:24 AM, Bruce . wrote:

Thanks for the links, but those places are wholesale-to-the-trade only.  At
best, I'd have to work through a shoe repair place, which is possible, but
adds expense.

I think you missed my point.  I don't need a perfect, commercial-quality
needle.  A completely serviceable awl needle could be made from any spring
wire.  For that matter, a serviceable needle could be made from a nail --
but why bother?

The problem is punching the eye without using elaborate jigs or dies.  I
was hoping for some simple method, much like one sometimes sees (for other
tasks) at demos by experts, but perhaps there just isn't one.

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:56 AM, Ries Niemi <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:

> I have been using a sewing awl since about 1968.
> And in that time, I think I have gone thru two needles.
> Guess I just have a light touch. So, for me, five bucks doesnt sound like
> a fortune.
> 
> If it were me, I would buy and modify commercial needles- easy to cut them
> with a cut disc, on a grinder or a dremel. All the hard work is done that
> way.
> It sounds like you have looked at standard, home sewing machine needles,
> instead of heavier industrial needles- have you considered someplace like
> this?
> http://www.pilgrimshoemachine.com/replacement_parts.html
> 
> the problem I see with making them is that, in small quantities, the home
> made ones are usually inferior AND more expensive- because you arent buying
> the ideal alloy of steel by the truck load, you are usually using inferior
> steel, or else paying a very high price for it. You arent using gigantic
> machines custom made to do the process, and you arent using controlled heat
> treating, or polishing.
> 
> I would think these guys would have something that would work, or know who
> does-
> http://www.kaufmanshoe.com/
> or these guys-
> 
> http://www.labellesupply.com/prodlist.asp?Serviceid=2&ProductId=28&CategoryId=236
> 
> to actually forge these, you would need to work them long, in my opinion,
> and build a pretty precise jig to hold the blank in place while you punched
> it.
> I would make the jig on my milling machine, myself- it would need to be
> machining level accuracy. Using a tiny ball end mill, I would mill a slot,
> and probably have a clamp on the waste end of the material to hold it in
> place, then have a registration guide that also clamped on for the punching.
> There would definitely be some trial and error, could take some work to
> get the punching jig just  right.
> You could clamp two blocks and drill, but you would then get a
> cylindirical hole- with a milling machine, and light passes, stepped, you
> could make the end taper, and, of course, it would be straighter. A drill
> will want to wander a bit.
> 
> ries
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 5:57 AM, Bruce . wrote:
> 
>> Bob -
>> 
>> You tell us you make needles (albeit very big ones) but don't tell us
> HOW!
>> Please share the info.  I t might just be exactly what I'm looking for!
>> 
>> Thanks for the suggesting on polishing.  That might help. I resharpened
> my
>> cut-off needle on a fine grinding wheel, and thought ahead enough to
> leave
>> the "scratches" lengthwise, but I didn't think to polish it.  And the
>> reason NOT to cut off sewing-awl needles is twofold -- price is one and
> the
>> shape of the resulting base is another.
>> 
>> BTW, it sounds like you did a patent search at the USPTO website.
> That's a
>> useful tool, but you can often do better using the Google patent search,
>> which will search foreign patents as well.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Bob Ehrenberger <eforge at centurytel.net
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> ---Original Message----
>>> 
>>> Subject: [TheForge] Making needles?
>>> I need a few needles of dimensions I can't find commercially.  The
>>> application is a sewing pliers (US Patent 1,352,508).  I have one of
> these
>>> pliers and it's great for repairing those damned silly running shoes you
>>> can't seem to avoid these past forty or so years.
>>> 
>>> The needle needs to be about 1" long, maybe 1.25", "heavy" thickness
>>> (equivalent to a #8 Tandy sewing-awl needle).  Therein lies the rub --
>>> cutting off the commercial needle to an appropriate length gives a
> needle
>>> that isn't quite appropriate for mounting in the sewing pliers.  I have
>>> done this and it can be made to work, but such commercial needles are
> not
>>> cheap and I'd prefer to make my own than to pay the price for what ends
> up
>>> being a second-rate needle.
>>> 
>>> ----Reply-----
>>> 
>>> I don't do a lot of patent searches and was a little surprised when it
>>> couldn't find the patent even though I had the number. When I went to
> add
>>> the subject to the search I discovered that the search engine defaulted
> to
>>> starting at 1976. Once I told it to search all, it found it.
>>> 
>>> On the original topic, I do make sewing needles, but I make big ones for
>>> sewing brooms. The early ones were just flat stock 1/4x1/16 with a
> taper on
>>> the end and a 1/8" hole.  Later I demoed at an event next to a broom
> maker
>>> and he asked me to make him some needles and gave my one for a pattern.
>>> These were heavier 1/4x3/16x6 and tapered at both ends all the way to
> the
>>> middle with the hole in the middle. They feel better in the hand and
> with
>>> the hole in the middle are faster to use.
>>> 
>>> Sorry, it doesn't help with your current problem.  I think Frosty's
> idea of
>>> shortening an awl needle should work.  One of the problem with hand made
>>> needles besides the heat treat, is they really need to be polished to
> work
>>> right.
>>> 
>>> Robert Ehrenberger
>>> Shelbyville, Mo.
>>> eforge at centurytel.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> TheForge mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> TheForge mail list group photo site is
>>> http://www.shutterfly.com
>>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>> Password: anvil
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Bruce
>> NJ
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> TheForge mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> TheForge mail list group photo site is
>> http://www.shutterfly.com
>> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>> Password: anvil
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
> 
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.shutterfly.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 

-- 
Bruce
NJ
______________________________________________________________
TheForge mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net

TheForge mail list group photo site is
http://www.shutterfly.com
Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
Password: anvil

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html