[TheForge] sweat OT:

Mon Jun 24 22:55:47 EDT 2013

Reis...
That sounds just like the "wealth/income redistribution"
that the Republicans were objecting so strenuously about.

On Jun 24, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Ries Niemi wrote:

I dunno- I have electric water heaters, they dont have any of that stuff, and they still cost $500 and up. 
I think the main problem is that EVERYTHING costs a lot more, but we dont get paid any more.
They say there is almost no inflation, but they leave out a lot of stuff when they make those charts.

I just bought a new tail-light bulb for my car. Not halogen, not a headlight, not fancy. Just a little light bulb, for an eight year old car- and most cars in America dont last that long- five years and they scrap em.
And that bulb cost SIX BUCKS! 
Hell, I remember when a tail light bulb was 39 cents.
The base style was not a screw in, you were stuck, at Napa, paying six bucks. Its a Honda, made in Ohio, but that really doesnt matter.
The fact is, pretty much every little thing you buy these days, costs a lot of money.

And yet- When I entered the work force, in 1972, a decent blue collar job paid ten to fifteen bucks an hour-  shipyards, welding, logging, working as a machinist at boeing- stuff like that. 
A new Ford F150 that year was about 3 grand- I had a buddy who bought a stripper with a six, new, in 74, for 2500.  I could buy a house in Seattle for 35 to 50 grand, for a big old craftsman.

Fast forward 40 years- a decent, blue collar job pays ten to fifteen bucks an hour around here, unless you are Union, which practically nobody is anymore- Union membership in the private sector is about half what it was then.
A new Ford is 30 to 40 grand. The same houses in Seattle are a cool million bucks. 

We have had wage stagnation for 40 years. 
And steady inflation of the cost of everything.

to me, thats the killer. 

ries

On Jun 23, 2013, at 9:04 AM, CGRAF wrote:

> Cost
> 
> New ignition system guidelines, mostly proprietary pilots ( no just sticking a new thermocouple in any more.) Venting altered to make it safe for those folks who insisted on working with gasoline on the floor next to the water heater. ( Be wary of that little screen that the combustion air passes through now. If , no WHEN, dust blocks it sufficiently the flames will back down and melt the fusible link in the "thermocouple" which is now an integral part of the pilot on most units. Make sure you have a spare, or s secure supply of these. They are proprietary as I said so you may make a run back to the manufacturer, assuming they sell directly to the public.)
> 
> Add to this all the R&D and testing for these NEW Products, with attached insurance costs, $500 sounds cheap.
> 
> Oh Yeah these are largely government mandated changes.
> They had to fix it, after all they had a product that worked, was essentially unchanged since the 1940's and was relatively trouble free, and cheap. It clearly needed fixing.
> 
> Mike Graf
> 
> On 6/22/2013 8:10 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
>> Sure makes one wonder why the cost of water heaters has soared so disproportionately...
>> Hardly a high tech item with expensive materials.
>> I noticed that there was no real any competition between brands locally anymore.
>> The "magic of the market" doesn't seem to hold much sway here on the ground anymore.
>> Been wondering if it'd pay to get a tankless/ on demand version would pay for itself,
>> seeing as we heat water with propane?
>> Need propane for the forges anyway...no Nat gas here of course.
>> Submitted pics and text on a recent commission to the CBA rag.
>> What i got back sure wasn't what i had to say...Fug that...Withdrew the submission.
>> Been part of a discussion trying to determine if the touted AllStates propane torch
>> was equal to the sales hype.
>> Impressive claims of fast, intense, economical, spot heat for metal working.
>> Still unclear how much is BS and wishful thinking.
>> Beginning to look like it's worthwhile if a shop has a big oxygen generator to back it up.
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2013, at 5:37 PM, Kim George wrote:
>> 
>> Of coarse this had to happen in the hottest weather this year. I had
>> a 20 gal.  water heater go bad Thur.. So Fri. I had to drain and
>> disconnect the old one and buy a new one. ($500) Talk about sticker
>> shock. Got the new hooked up about noon today. Did  I mention this was
>> in the attic? I hope to cool down and take a shower today up stairs.
>> 
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