[TheForge] opinions please, 2 Qs

Sat Apr 13 20:22:09 EDT 2013

Ah, I misunderstood..
I was thinking of the air bags they use to lift massive structural components with.

On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:37 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:

Don't sweat the tack effect on semi air suspension bags, they're designed to support oh say 40,000 lbs. in sub zero temps and take seriously bad roads like say the Pipeline haul road (Dalton highway) Besides being more than able to take the load hammering them, they're up to surviving serious road hazards, often about the only salvageable part of a wreck are the air bags. Heck, you can't shoot a hole in one with any pistol I know of.

Jer
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] opinions please, 2 Qs

> The air bag idea is kinda charming.
> Like having a waterbed on the floor of a tack factory though.
> My guess is that the mass of the inertia block would be large enough
> to dismiss the lateral forces of the crank.
> 
> On Apr 12, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
> 
> It's not a bad idea Bruce but coil springs present lateral stability problems. Leaf springs on the other hand are laterally solid, especially if they're  mounted at different angles. that way they couldn't sway, they'd have to compress the lateral springs lengthwise and if you're hitting stuff that hard . . . Nevermind. To control the boinky nature of spring mounted machinery do what the pros do and include some shocks. Heck, you could have the only air ride hammer on the left coast.
> 
> Heck, forget the springs and mount it on semi scale air rides (air bags) and it'd not only be impact nullified but much quieter.
> 
> Pete's "air ride Anyang" has a nice ring to it eh?
> 
> Jer
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce ." <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 1:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] opinions please, 2 Qs
> 
> 
>> Pete -
>> 
>> Go ahead with the hammer, but mount it on a slew of coil truck
>> springs, like Cheyenne Mountain.  Then if you're really good, you can
>> set up a resonance while using the thing that will bounce the anvil UP
>> as hard as the hammer comes DOWN and you'll not only "silence" the
>> thing vis-a-vis geological effect, but also get a blow twice what you
>> would normally.  Not to mention it would be way cool.
>> 
>> But you don't have to worry about the cliffs lasting much longer,
>> anyway.  I'm sure that Big Sur is high on the list of potential
>> fracking sites...
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer
>> <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>>> Jerry, we are on the tumbled, wrinkled scrapings resulting from tectonic plate subduction. Under us we have 2 kinds of sandstone, chert, pillow lava, prehistoric beaches, clay layers and who knows what all. Because it's so steep, the little creek has cut deeply and the  scaling ravine walls  are pretty darn vertical as it nears the ocean. Coming up off the beach, the first 100' or so is also vertical, heavily fractured rock. Roughly the angle of repose sloping up the mtn to us. I don't see any real possibility of stabilizing structures and figure that at the age of 68 there's no point in even trying.
>>> Like our last place, this place is on it's way into the ocean. We are betting we will croak before that happens, but who knows..geologicqal time is pretty brisk here.
>>> OTOH, i'm probably over estimating the vibrational impact of the  little 165# hammer, given the fact that we have a major scenic hwy behind us with dump trucks and tour busses rumbling by every day. The hammer site is a fair distance from the most unstable faces.
>>> The Caltrans crews have fairly completely turned over in the last few years and almost all of the old guys are gone. There was a scandal ( mostly pure BS driven by an AH bounder with bureaucratic ambitions) and the new guys are nice enough but divorced from most accumulated knowledge...That fiasco will prove expensive in the long run.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Jerry Frost wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pete, it wasn't an analysys as much as just my memory running. I haven't driven past your piece of Cal. in I don't recall how long, 99 I think maybe. I've driven 1 a few times since moving to AK, maybe 4 times but I've never put boots on the ground there. Close maybe but probably not within many miles.
>>> 
>>> As I recall the geology on the western face in your general neighborhood is quake fractured whatever the stone. Even stabilizing techniques pose hazards. I'd need to do some drilling and sampling to pose even rudimentary methods. I'd be scared to consider doing water packers at all but it'd probably be a useful test. No! Don't do water packers!
>>> 
>>> I'd say the toe of your face is being washed by the Pacific and will fail eventually, whenever that is, it's sure as death and taxes. Making a corner stable eough to take a little power hammer action isn't an unreasonable expectation. I'm thinking your judgement in when to use it would be more important than any foundation or slope stabilization design I could suggest, even with a good subsoil report in hand. And YEAH, I still have friends I can consult. I don't know if any of the Caltrans guys would remember me but there is one guy in FHWA who would if he hasn't retired.
>>> 
>>> I'll see if I can drum anyone up who has first hand info or even field or submitted reports/recomendations/ etc. I think I'll do some searching and see what's what.
>>> 
>>> Jer
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer" <artgawk at thegrid.net>
>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 10:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] opinions please, 2 Qs
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Good analysis Jerry!
>>>> What i fear here is water percolating down through fractured rock
>>>> to a slanted clay layer below.
>>>> The vulnerable slope's toe is completely gone on 2 of the 4 sides of us, though we are solider than talus...i think.
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Bruce
>> NJ
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