[TheForge] OT - Water pressure problem. OT:ish

Mon May 16 01:32:36 EDT 2011

That's much too straight-forward!

On May 15, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Lynn and Susan Lang wrote:

> Bruce
> Why not just collect the water in a stock tank and when water is needed
> have a small pump to charge your garden hose.....Not knowing your task
> makes suggestions a shot in the dark...
> 
> lynn 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Freeman
> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2011 8:45 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT - Water pressure problem.
> 
> I've had two ideas since first asking.  One is to mount a plastic
> barrel horizontally on four or six legs as a water tower, but lean
> this structure against the back of the garage, which (1) hides it from
> casual view, (2) provides the extra rigidity from the existing
> structure, and (3) allows me to use the space beneath as a "shed", if
> I enclose it.
> 
> But on reading Peter's contribution, it struck me that I could
> pressurize a tank using air from an air compressor.  When the water
> level got too low, the air pressure would be released until low enough
> for the water pump to handle.  The water pump would refill the tank,
> then the water pump would shut off and the air pump would come on and
> pump the tank back up to operating pressure.  Clearly, one would want
> a tank large enough for the watering job at hand.  And a manual switch
> to initialize the refill cycle would be handy. Main advantage -- no
> tower structure to build and worry about.  Main disadvantage --
> obtaining a suitable tank.  Anyone know a source of such tanks --
> cheap?
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 4:18 PM, peter fels <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>> Storing water under the house in sealed tanks has thermal mass
> virtues.
>> or short term use, an external  tank ,with water above pressurized air
>> ought to suffice. No bladder necessary....just drain and recharge
> every month or 2.
>> I've about 300 gallons available for fire fighting like that.
>> The pump could be electric on a pressure switch..all commonly
> available and modestly priced...
>> Or a small solar powered piston pump might suffice as well.
>> A tank atop a n upright pipe promises the least upkeep and lots of
> design freedom.
>> I think you can go to about 30' up with a centrifugal pump. Beyond
> that you'll want a piston or roller pump.
>> I've long wanted to build a rigid, flat, black tank with glass
> covering,
>>  that would pump with no moving parts, by the daily heating and
> expansion of the water...
>> OK the check valve is a moving part.
>> 
>> 
>> On May 14, 2011, at 3:05 PM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>> 
>>> Once again I'm using the broad knowledge base represented by this
>>> group for an OT problem.
>>> 
>>> I have just installed rain barrels at all my downspouts, including a
>>> 250-gallon tank at one of them.  I plan to siphon or pump water
>>> between them to maximize capacity.
>>> 
>>> However, none of these are more than 16" above the ground -- two
>>> cement blocks.  That means that there's little water pressure
>>> available, making using the water inconvenient.  I could rig a pump
> to
>>> go on anytime I need water, but a more elegant solution would be to
>>> use that pump to keep an elevated tank (water tower) filled between
>>> limits.
>>> 
>>> What I'm thinking is to use a fairly small plastic tank -- 15 or 20
>>> gallons (i.e., ~150 lbs maximum), and to mount it high enough to
>>> provide reasonable water pressure.  In use, the pump would probably
>>> come on every once in a while, because the tank would be fairly
> small,
>>> but at least it wouldn't be running continuously or with no flow.
>>> 
>>> Now, to get 15psi I'd need a tower of over 30', and that's out of the
>>> question.  I'd like something as low as possible and as small as
>>> possible.  So, the first question is what is the lowest useful water
>>> pressure for use around yard and garden?  I don't need to run
>>> sprinklers, but would like to use drip hoses.
>>> 
>>> Possibly a water tower isn't the proper solution.  What other
>>> solutions exist?  What I'm aware of is a pressurized system, in which
>>> the pump fills an accumulator tank, or something of the sort, which
>>> then discharges for a while before the pump comes on again.  This
>>> strikes me as expensive, and i'd like to keep expenses low.
>>> 
>>> If it were possible to do, one potentially elegant solution would be
>>> an accumulator tank that would be filled either with city water or
>>> pumped rain water.  There'd have to be a barrier between them, and
> the
>>> side that would accept the city water would have to be clean and
>>> isolated from the rain water side (which must be assumed to be
>>> contaminated with various environmental contaminants, not the least
> of
>>> which would be bird feces).  If I put a check valve to keep the "city
>>> water" from backing up into the city piping, this might even be
> legal!
>>> I toss it out mainly for discussion, as I really don't see much
>>> advantage relative to an air bladder accumulator.
>>> 
>>> So, regale me with your wisdom, o metalworkers and artists of
> reality!
>>> --
>>> Bruce
>>> NJ
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bruce
> NJ
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