[TheForge] now Japanese nuke plants OT: POL:

Thu Mar 17 10:23:24 EDT 2011

Seems we agree on the whole.

As for roosters, I have about a dozen.  I know whence you speak.

Hoss McGregor wrote:
> Yeah, building nuke plants, petro pants, anything else that might be hazardous on the Rim Of Fire, especially with off shore quakes, is probably a bad idea. Keep in mind, the reactors all survived the quake, the problem came from the generators getting flooded. No generators, no cooling pumpings. They were behind sea-walls that would have worked for a 'normal size' tsunami. Problem is, no one thought to anticipate a once a millennia quake that moved the island 10 feet, and shifted the axis of the earth. 
> 
> This situation could get nasty, if they don't get it under control. Thing is, if we are going to have the kind of life that the world seems to want to live, we have to have the technologies that people seem to hate so much. 
> 
> Safe enough are words often spoken by dead men. You work with what you got, but be aware of the hazards and do your best to mitigate them. That's why I wear a fall harness when I'm in a boom lift. The damned things aren't safe, I don't like them, but it's got to be done. 
> 
> Until we can some up with a way to make super efficient solar cells, and really good batteries that don't require nasty chemicals, we are stuck with petro-chemical, nuke plants and the like. Unless we all want to like the Amish. 
> 
> I know, I'm making a bunch of sense, civilized people aren't up this early, but I've got to wake the roosters up. What, you thought they woke themselves up?
> 
> 
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> 
> Message body
> Anyone even remotely interesting is mad
> in some way or another. 
> 
> 
> 	-Anon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:19:57 -0500
>> From: osan at netlabs.net
>> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] now Japanese nuke plants OT: POL:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hoss McGregor wrote:
>>> While we're stopping dangerous things, let quit driving cars. Course
>>> horses were more dangerous. We can stop steamships and go back to
>>> sailing. We can stop a whole lot of stuff because it might be
>>> dangerous.
>> In most cases I am in full agreement with you.  In this particular case 
>> I am not so sure.  I don't care if you get together with your buddy in 
>> your basement and play russian roulette with a .38.  Doing it with a 
>> 100# charge of Amitol, OTOH, is likely to take me up in the cloud with 
>> you.  To that I take some stern exception.
>>
>> The way things appear to be shaping up in Japan, the boys that have been 
>> rolling the dice with the lives of millions of people now appear to be 
>> tossing a lot of consecutive snake eyes.  If there is a significant 
>> release of the wrong substances, Japan is going to face its own little 
>> "holocaust" in a few years as the cancer cases could reach into the tens 
>> of millions.  This is happening in Tokyo's backyard - one of the most 
>> densely populated regions on the planet.  If they are hit with that many 
>> terminally ill people at once, their economy will not likely withstand it.
>>
>> I understand your position - I share it - but ask yourself this: would 
>> you feel quite the same were you, your wife, and your children were to 
>> find yourselves in a terminal ward in the wake of a similar disaster - 
>> one imposed upon you without having been consulted?  Consider your 
>> answer to yourself very carefully.
>>> New tech for nuke planets is safer. Yes there is still the waste
>>> issue, but some of the newer technology doesn't produce as much. All
>>> in all, it's more efficient than windmills ever will be(there's a
>>> reason we stopped using them). Hoss
>> Safer, sure - but safe enough?  Can it ever be safe enough?  I don't 
>> know the answer.  That aside, how many people may one group of people 
>> legitimately sacrifice to death and disease in the name of... whatever 
>> is the reason for which they do it?  One?  Ten?  A million?  I cannot 
>> speak for anyone else, but I am not that fond of others placing my life 
>> at risk without at least asking my opinion on the matter.  That is the 
>> sort of thing for which people have been killing each other for 
>> thousands of years.  It is a violation of the natural boundaries that 
>> lie around each of us and that are sacrosanct, yet people appear more 
>> than happy to violate at a whim.  Churches, monarchs, oligarchs, and all 
>> manner of other vermin have employed a core toolkit of fallacious 
>> beliefs and bullshit to foist and justify the violation of the natural 
>> interpersonal boundaries that exist between all individuals.  Sadly, far 
>> too many people have been far too eager to accept the various lines of 
>> shit fed to them by their esteemed and fearless leaders.  It is an old 
>> saw and never right, but so long as killing your neighbors was limited 
>> by the strength and endurance of your arms, as well as your skill and 
>> perhaps a little luck, the range of devastation one man could wreak upon 
>> the world was of limited scope, both materially and temporally.  Today 
>> we can lay waste to vast stretches of the earth for generations by 
>> pushing a button or when something in our machinery goes <pop> <crunch> 
>> <pow>.  All well and good for those who sign up for it, but what of 
>> everyone else?  What do you say to them?  Oops?  Accidents will happen?
>>
>> This is bad shit and it stands to get a lot worse in ways most people 
>> currently fail to see.  For example, consider that Japan is the second 
>> largest consumer of US Treasury bonds.  They are now likely to become 
>> cash strapped as they respond to this immense disaster.  They could dump 
>> huge volumes of these securities onto the market, depressing prices 
>> sharply, resulting in a glut and an inability for the US government to 
>> sell more, and those they do sell would be going at stiff discounts and 
>> probably correspondingly high returns.  That screws our economy further 
>> into the dirt.  What little substance Obama's phony baloney "recovery" 
>> has will evaporate and then we may see the fun start.
>>
>> Shit like the Japanese situation do not occur in-vacuo.  The effects 
>> radiate outward, in this case like the blast front of a high yield bomb.
>>
>> Nuke enery *may* be viable in geologically stable locations, but the 
>> ring of fire?  You cannot seriously believe that the decision to build 
>> nuclear plants in Japan, of all places, was rooted in honest and sane 
>> consideration of the circumstances.  Either the people who decided this 
>> were barking mad or as crooked as the day is long at the poles.  The 
>> possibly breaching containment is the apodictic testament to the truth 
>> of this.
>>
>> But who knows... I may be wrong about it all.
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