[TheForge] now Japanese nuke plants OT: POL:

Wed Mar 16 02:57:09 EDT 2011

There is so much BS being put out in the news about what could happen I can't even watch it. They get some talking head that is not a nuclear engineer but some kind of security consultant and they treat his words as gospel. The fuel rods are ceramic (uranium oxide) pellets coated with zirconium tubing. The zirconium might ignite but the fuel itself will not it is already an oxide. It is not so easy to get bulk zirconium to burn without getting it in a finely divided state. Not saying it can't or will not happen but ...  It is a mess and it looks like it will get worse but the talking heads and news anchors don't know what they are talking about for the most part. 

Boiling water reactors like the GE Mark 1 that are the ones out of control over there are a design thats only purpose is to make a cheap reactor and should have never been approved. Pressurized water types have much more robust containment systems. 

So we burn coal and kill ourselves with global warming. It is a no win situation. The big problem is just too damn many people.

On Mar 15, 2011, at 10:46 PM, peter fels wrote:

> Hi Jason;
> Keep watching!
> At present 2,   7" thick steel , primary reactor vessels appear to have ruptured  and the fuel rods inside are at least partly melted.
> The waste rod storage tanks are damaged to varying degrees and one is leaking too fast to keep filled.
> If the storage tanks run dry and the fuel rods burn things will get rather serious.
> All of our reactors are old.
> The difference between a coal mine tragedy and exploding reactors
> is that only a few hundred folks die in a coal mine ...
> But these damaged reactors  will keep killing folks for thousands of years.
> Radiation poisoning is nasty, but cancer is a long, slow, painful death
> that leaves your family broke at the end....
> And the victims didn't elect to take the risk of going down in the mine.
> That seems like a pretty convincing argument to me.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 15, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Jason Nass wrote:
> 
>> To sum up my feelings on this a post from a friend...
>> 
>> "A 41 year old nuclear reactor gets hit by a magnitude 8.9 earthquake, then
>> slammed with a 30 foot tsunami, followed by an explosion caused by a build
>> up of hydrogen gas that blew the roof off of the building, and the core is
>> intact and contained. I'm sorry, who exactly thinks that nuclear power isn't
>> safe?"
>> 
>> More people die from coal mining and oil drilling every year, than have EVER
>> died from nuclear power... shouldn't we shut down those tech's first?
>> 
>> Jason Nass - MacTalis Ironworks
>> me at wargoth.com
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of peter fels
>> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 7:46 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] now Japanese nuke plants OT: POL:
>> 
>> Seems you've summed it up about right to me Jim.
>> I do believe that until there is a convincing system in place 
>> to safely and economically deal with decommissioning and the spent fuel
>> stockpiles;
>> Not to mention places like Hanford...
>> That future nuke plants are a foolish proposition.
>> 
>> I have a great affection for technology,
>> and believe research should go forward on all fronts..
>> But........
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 14, 2011, at 4:20 PM, James Binnion wrote:
>> 
>>> Peter,
>>> 
>>> I know that Diablo Cyn should probably not have been built there but this
>> is the kind of compromise power companies make that I was alluding to.  Just
>> because there is a group of faults in CA does not mean that you can't build
>> a safe fission plant there, it is probably not economically viable to do it
>> with the types of reactors that are currently in use for power generation
>> but that does not mean it can't be done. With that said I am not certain
>> that there has been a "safe" commercial fission power plant built in the US.
>> The Navy is just barely able to do so and they can exert a level of
>> oversight and control on its contractors and operators that civilian power
>> companies can't even come close to. And yes I know there are problems with
>> the military contractors and oversight issues. However when the
>> commissioning crew is going to have to ride, sleep, eat and live within 100
>> feet of the reactor core they tend to watch what the yard guys are doing
>> rather closely. 
>>> 
>>> The newest generation of power reactor designs use gas moderated cores and
>> are theoretically not able to melt down because they don't rely on water to
>> cool and transfer power from the core. But none of them have been built in
>> the US as we have had an unofficial moratorium on new nuclear power plants
>> for 25 years now. I would be very happy to see the pressurized water
>> reactors go away but as long as fossil fuels are available and cheap we will
>> not be driven to build new safer fission plants. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> James Binnion
>>> jbin at well.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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James Binnion
jbin at well.com