[TheForge] Smoke & toxic gas poisoning (was: Auto darkening helmet)

[Jerry Frost]

No Bruce I wasn't being tongue in cheek as the last half of my post states 
pretty clearly. Toxicity is about dosage, not chemistry. As far as I know 
there are no chemicals that are toxic in any dose, even plutonium oxide.

Yeah, H2S is seriously dangerous, we got to spend several hours over a 
couple days not counting "refresher" classes about "sour gas" H2S when I 
worked the north slope. The basic wisdom being if you smell it run upwind 
unless it's getting stronger, then run cross wind. The bulk of the classes 
was about likely places to find it lurking in wait.

Jer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 1:17 PM
Subject: [TheForge] Smoke & toxic gas poisoning (was: Auto darkening helmet)


>I suspect Frosty's tongue was in his cheek when he wrote this.
>
> Nonetheless, let me point out that the degree of exposure is what
> matters in cyanide poisoning.  Some poisons, like mercury and lead are
> cumulative -- it's quite difficult to get them out of your body once
> they are in.
>
> Now, I'm a chemist, not a toxicologist, so my knowledge of this stuff
> is from the practical standpoint of not getting myself poisoned while
> doing my job.  My opinions should be considered in that light.
>
> Cyanide, not so.  Cyanide has to reach some (rather low) concentration
> before it's a danger to you.  If you get a sub-lethal dose, its
> effects may linger (as you've reduced the ability of your blood to
> carry oxygen), but if you're in good health you should recover
> completely.   I happen to be able to smell it (pure HCN, not mixed in
> smoke), though not everybody can, and I'm here to talk about it.  In
> my case, if I smell it, I move away from the source (and stay away
> because the nose fatigues).
>
> Generally speaking, if you avoid nasty stuff like smoke, you're not
> likely to get in trouble from its cyanide content.  OTOH, if you think
> a little smoke won't hurt you -- well, remember Jim (Paw Paw) Wilson:
> http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor.php?lesson=safety3/demo
>
> There's actually a much more insidious toxic gas than HCN, namely H2S.
> Just the other day I was paddling on a creek and my paddle stirred up
> the mud from on the bottom.  I was enveloped with the stench of rotten
> eggs -- the odor of H2S.  I probably was in no danger as the crick was
> fairly wide at that point, but had it been narrow with little air flow
> it is conceivable that the H2S concentration could have been of
> concern.  This is because the threshold of odor is about the same as
> the threshold of toxicity for H2S, AND the nose fatigues.  There you
> are, you get this whiff of rotten egg.  Then the smell goes away --
> but you're still breathing it!  So, I paddled back out of that area.
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> This is the REAL downside to wearing wool as fire protection, the smoke
>> contains cyanide. This was pointed out on a smithing forum yakking about
>> this subject a few days ago. The upside is it takes a pretty serious
>> exposure to wool or hair smoke to be hazardous unless you're sensitive 
>> and
>> the smell is more than enough to clue you into taking care of the 
>> problem.
>>
>> Jer
> -- 
> Bruce
> NJ
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