[TheForge] Forge welding...The unfortunate truth

peter fels artgawk at thegrid.net
Wed Jul 27 14:38:34 EDT 2011 

That's fascination...
But something must be missing here...Like maybe an inert gas atmosphere..or process under a vacuum?
Otherwise smiths of yore would have been mechanically welding all sorts of metals together and Jim B's products would seem mundane.


On Jul 27, 2011, at 8:41 AM, williamsiron at comcast.net wrote:

> 
> 
> All, 
> 
> 
> 
> As I was reading this article, the process sounds like forge welding. This comes from R & D magazine. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Williams 
> 
> Snow Hill, Maryland 
> 
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
> 
> 
> 
> Researchers Zhili Feng, Alan Frederic, and Stan David in Oak Ridge National Laboratory's Materials S&T Division have made significant progress toward a new metal processing technique, called friction-stir extrusion, that could represent a major advance in converting recyclable materials—such as alloys of aluminum, magnesium, and titanium alloys, and even high-temperature superconductors—to useful products. 
> 
> The process also represents a step forward in energy-efficient industrial processes in that it eliminates the melting step in conventional metal recycling and processing. The friction-stir method, as the name implies, derives its heat from spinning metal against metal, and direct conversion of mechanical energy to thermal energy as frictional heat generated between two surfaces. 
> 
> The ORNL team produced a solid wire of a magnesium-aluminum alloy from machined chips, eliminating the energy and labor intensive processes of melting and casting. 
> 
> "This process is very simple. You get the product form that you want by just using the frictional heat," says Stan David, an ORNL retiree and consultant who once led the division's Materials Joining group. 
> 
> The new approach provides an opportunity to efficiently produce highly engineered structural and functional materials. Friction extrusion can be developed into metal recycling process of steels, Al alloys, and other recyclable metals. It is suitable to produce a variety of bulk nanomaterials such as nano-engineered ODS alloys. It also has the potential to produce nano grain structure bulk materials. The impact of economically producing nano-engineered creep resistance Al conductors in large quantity will be enormous for the power transmission industry. 
> 
> Friction-stir extrusion could also represent a new route to the fabrication of extremely specialized materials, such as high-temperature superconducting wires and mechanical alloyed materials. 
> 
> "The process of melting and casting can destroy the properties of a highly ordered, novel material such as an oxide dispersion strengthened materials or a high-temperature superconductors. Because friction-stir only takes the material up to 'plasticizing' temperatures, the properties of the material are not affected as much," says Zhili Feng, who now leads the ORNL group. 
> 
> The extrusion process follows the same principle of the friction-stir welding, in which a rapidly spinning tool is applied to the metal, heating it until it becomes soft, but not melted. Because the material is still in its solid state when it is extruded, it suffers none of the degradation and transformation that would occur with actual melting. 
> 
> "The process of melting is very detrimental to those properties," says Feng. 
> 
> Wayne Thomas, who pioneered the friction stir technology at The Welding Institute in England, says ORNL has proved the basic principle of a new technique that could be key to working with advanced alloys, including high-temperature superconductors. 
> 
> "It is very difficult to mix silicon, titanium, magnesium, and other materials in to alloys and turn them into molten metals. If you can mix them in the solid phase, it is much better, and there are mixtures you can't even consider outside a solid phase," Thomas says. 
> 
> One such application is the fabrication of mechanically alloyed magnesium alloys into components. Friction-stir extrusion has potential to be a low-cost way to produce product forms with this lightweight and high-performance metal. ORNL is extensively involved in the magnesium alloy R&D and technology transfer and commercialization. 
> 
> The energy savings of this process are significant: The process requires only 10 to 20% of the energy required for conventional melting with potential saving of more than 80%. 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "peter fels" <artgawk at thegrid.net> 
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net> 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 7:30:03 PM 
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Forge welding...The unfortunate truth 
> 
> This whole preceding discussion is fatuous posturing and extremely deceptive. 
> It's a fabricated veil, drawn to protect the entrenched fabricating industry. 
> The unromantic reality is that almost all modern blacksmith joinery for some years, 
> Has been accomplished using pop rivets and crazy glue. 
> All too often, crazy glue has been used to affix cheaply purchased, Chinese pseudo-arc welder beads, used 
>  to cover the glue joints. 
> The massive lobbying efforts of the  world wide pop-rivet monopoly has successfully suppressed the disheartening  truth. 
> 
> I'm sorry to tell you this...but the truth must out! 
> 
> Forge welding? Hah!!! 
> 
> You'll thank me when you are older....pf 
> 
> On Jul 26, 2011, at 3:54 PM, williamsiron at comcast.net wrote: 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> I've used borax, boric acid, a mix of the two, clean/dry quartz sand, EZ weld and several others from Superior Flux in Cleveland, Ohio, a mix of boric acid and either black or red iron oxide and a flux made by Russell Colvin. Depending on your metal, the fire and your experience, each one works well. The down side of borax is that after the welding is done, you need to clean all the excess flux off the piece. The now anhydrous borax will absorb water from the air and turn white. Then your finely crafted piece will have white streaks and your customer will have questions. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Williams 
>> 
>> Snow Hill, Maryland 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> 
>> 
>> From: fudgumz at gmail.com 
>> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net 
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2011 12:10:13 PM 
>> Subject: [TheForge] Forge welding 
>> 
>> Are there any ways to forge weld without borax? I've heard that mud dobber nests make good flux, when crushed finely. Any ideas? also, where can one find borax cheaply? 
>>  ----- 
>> Sent from my Virgin Mobile. 
>> 
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