[TheForge] OT - wood stove catalytic combustors, heat extractors, etc. (was: Barrel Stove Kits)

Thu Oct 14 00:02:06 EDT 2010

Jerry,

I've been having senior moments all my life, but they're more frequent now 8^)

Good info.  I'll skip the catalytic afterburner.  I'd concluded that
anyway after contacting the manufacturer, which now recommends they
ONLY be used in stoves designed for them.

I am thinking of putting a T in the flue, with a cap over it.  Not
really a clean-out, more an inspection port.  In fact, I expect NOT to
have to clean the flue annually, because I will not be heating my
house with this stove.  It's for warming my garage shop, so -- lower
temperature, fewer days running, fewer hours per day.  But it would be
nice to be able to check up on creosote easily.

I'm also wondering about a NON-catalytic afterburner.  When starting a
coal fire in a forge, I always break a hole through to the tuyere so
that a flame shoots through to burn up the smoke.  Imagine a small
burner (miniature of the aspirated burners used in gas forges) that
would shoot a flame into the flue whenever there was smoke.  Should
burn up the smoke quite reliably.  Just a thought at this point.

My stove is identical to the Vogelzang standard that's sold by HF in
this state.  That suggests to me that it's legal here, but I suppose
it's not certain.  But in three test burns in it, the flue gas ran
smoky only a very short while, so I don't expect problems.

On another subject, I've looked up stove black in "receipt" books (as
they called them) and found them mostly graphite and/or lamp black,
sometimes with oils or turpentine.  So they apparently are for
appearance only.  On that note, I painted my stove with vegetable oil.
 That will turn black-ish when it bakes on.   It may remain sticky in
places, burn off in others, and turn to soap where ash hits it.  But
on the whole it should provide some protection against moisture.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Jerry Frost <akfrosty at mtaonline.net> wrote:
> Yeah, in the last 38 years I've used almost any kind of wood stove you can
> think of. I tried replying yesterday but forgot and attached a pic of my
> shop barrel stove with my heat exchanger and you know how theforge list is
> about attachments. I'm blaming the TREE!
>
> There are more and more cities in the country that either ban or set strong
> limits on wood stoves so it is getting harder to find simple stoves and
> kits. Catalytic stoves are going away because they're burning too many homes
> down. They require careful warmup and use or they can soot up and plug
> literally in a few hours. Then they actually make creosote production more
> efficient so you get the experience of a stack fire. This is just what
> happened to us a few years ago. Literally four days after having the stove
> and stack cleaned, inspected and certified the catalytic plugged and I got a
> terrifying call at work. The stove pipe was orange hot for about 24" an Deb
> couldn't get the stove under control. I told her how to use a fire
> extinguisher in a wood stove and to start tossing cups of water in to put
> the stack out but first hang up and call 911. That gutsy wife of mine stood
> her ground and when the fire dept got there about 5 mins later she had it
> under control.
>
> The old catalytic wood stove is out on the front porch waiting for someone
> to come get it. We're supplimenting heat with a Jotul multiple combustion
> zone stove now and not only does it put out more heat for the wood it burns
> cleaner, less smoke and almost no creosote buildup.
>
> That's the other type of low emission wood burners and is rapidly replacing
> the catalytics. Multiple burn zones are exactly what is being done when more
> combustion air is fed into a heat exchanger or another area of the main fire
> chamber. The Jotul has three zones, #1 at the main draft center front at the
> level of the grate. #2 is above the door aimed down across the glass to both
> supply more combustion air and to keep the window clean. #3 is at the top of
> the main fire chamber and consists of a zig zag of SS pipes that supplies
> air at the top of the chamber and shoots more into the space between the top
> baffle and the stove top. Maybe it's actually a four zone stove.
>
> While I'll never have another catalytic wood stove I'll be the first to tell
> you you MUST maintain the stove and stack regularly and correctly, use it
> properly and most important never NEVER take it for granted, always pay
> attention to the stove. It doesn't matter what kind of solid fuel stove it
> is, it needs to warm up before it'll work properly. If you stuff a stove
> full and light it up you are ASKING for trouble.
>
> I have a barrel stove in the shop with my type heat exchanger or stack
> robber as the old timers call em. The heat exchanger is a shortened 55 gl
> drum with a 15gl grease barrel welded through the center. It's mounted on
> the pipe jack just like a double barrel setup but mine will rotate so I can
> aim the warm air where ever I want it in the shop. Oh yeah, there's a blower
> that'll go on it when I'm finished. finishing it got put on hold last
> September like a lot of other stuff like insulation in the shop.
>
> When you have a heat exchanger on a solid fuel stove it'll cool the smoke
> making it percipitate out more creosote. Robbing heat from the smoke is what
> they're for after all so multiple burn zones is a really good idea.
>
> Jer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:47 PM
> Subject: [TheForge] OT - wood stove catalytic combustors, heat extractors,
> etc. (was: Barrel Stove Kits)
>
>
>>I just looked up "Magic Heat" and it's described as a heat exchanger
>> only (with thermostated fan).  OTOH, there are Condar's catalytic
>> combustors which actually burn the gases, but wear out after 10000
>> hours or so, they say.  And I don't know whether they can be installed
>> in a flue pipe, or whether some special stove is needed for them.
>>
>> Does anyone out there use these things?  What luck have you had?  How
>> do they install?  How often must they be replaced?  Do they reduce the
>> need for chimney cleaning (with brush)?
>>
>> I probably will not be using my wood stove all that much anyway, so my
>> inclination is to do without.  From two test burns I find the smoke
>> quits when the thing heats up anyway.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:12 AM, CGRAF <adveniam at att.net> wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2010 10:38 PM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JAMES OESTREICH wrote:
>>>>> Paul N wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Have one in my shop got it at menards 4 or 5 years ago with a majick
>>>>> heat in the stack
>>>>
>>>> THose things draw a LOT of the waste heat out of the gases. But as
>>>> Jerry will no doubt point out, you don't want your smoke going too cold,
>>>> lest ye set thyself up for a raging stack fire one day.
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>> The ones that I have seen had secondary combustion of all those
>>> vaporized volatiles and soot. Done properly the creosote gets burned and
>>> the flue products are clean.
>>>
>>> Solid fuel on the bottom essentially a gas burner on top.
>>>
>>> The ones that have all the tubes in the secondary are mostly just heat
>>> extractor setups.
>>> These are two very different animals.
>>>
>>> Mike Graf
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> TheForge mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:TheForge at mailman.qth.net
>
> TheForge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> Password: anvil
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

-- 
Bruce
NJ