[TheForge] The mind 1st to go

Tue Oct 12 23:49:41 EDT 2010

I am a bit bemused by this.

First- the last time I saw a $20 anvil was maybe, maybe, in the 70's. 
Most every blacksmith I know pays more like $2 a pound these days- I, personally, paid well over a thousand bucks for my last anvil.
So to think that somehow the prices at tail gate sales at blacksmith conferences are "gouging"- I sure dont see it. 
I think blacksmith to blacksmith prices are reasonable.
Which is not to say that a good scrounger cant find better deals from time to time, but anvils have not been cheap anywhere on the west coast for as long as I can remember.

I have not heard bragging about twenty dollar deals- instead, I see hammers routinely selling for five grand and more, with two recently in my neck of the woods selling for $15k. 
I see smiths I know who spend thousands, pretty often, for high quality tools. 

I knew Russel Jacque, and, now, Jim Garrett, pretty well. I know that no "gouging" takes place when the sales price of a new Nimba is set at $2275- thats what it costs to make a high quality tool in the USA, and Jim makes a LOT less on each one than any "real" company would.
So I think $500 for a used anvil is not highway robbery, but a pretty fair price.

A new car averages $30,000 today. Stuff is expensive.

The way I pay for my tools is not by selling old tools for huge amounts to newbies- instead, I do jobs, and include, in the prices, profit that buys me tools. Every tool I own was paid for by a job, and not by being given to me by some mentor or oldtimer.
In fact, most of the old timers I know when learning metal work in the 70's and 80's were windbags and drunks- lovable ones, for sure- but I found I had to figure most things out on my own, and while once in a long while I found a deal on a tool from a tradesman, more often the good deals were from clueless civilians- the old timer policy was usually "dont tell the kids anything- they are competition for jobs".

Anyway, if you live in Oregon, you know that the Pacific Northwest is one of the worst places in the country for used tools- there is a huge wealthy group of hobby types, and never was much industry. 
Deals are not to be found here. 
600 blacksmiths in the NWBA alone, all competing for that one anvil on craigslist. 

ries

On Oct 12, 2010, at 12:52 PM, Jason Nass wrote:

I am, and I do, regularly hit the yardsales etc. and grab things if I happen
to stumble across them, but they have gotten to be pretty scarce. I can
honestly say that in my neck of the woods, I have only come across any
blacksmithing tools at a sale like that on 3 different occasions, all of
them tongs. I am not really looking for tools for myself, and such was not
the point. As a younger smith, (40) I am seeing a distressing lack of truly
young blood in the trade, and often because all of the older smiths and
antique dealers have bought up just about all the old tools that exist, and
both parties tend to want an arm and a leg for them. It honestly disgusts me
to hear one of the old timers bragging about how they managed to find a 250#
Hay Budden at a garage sale for $20 and then sold it to some young guy for
$500. This is just my opinion, but I don't see how the trade is going to
survive another generation when all the tools have been bought up and have
had their prices inflated into oblivion. Don't misunderstand me, I have no
problem at all with making a buck, I'm just saying I'm seeing a lot of
gouging going on (look at the price of anvils on flea-bay if you need
proof). 

I am re-tooling a shop after a rather messy divorce 8 years ago that lead to
me GIVING all of my tools to my buddy who had been working with me for 3
years at the time. The cost of shipping the tools from Oregon to Ohio was
astronomical, and at the time at least the prices and availability of tools
in Ohio were considerably better. I figured they'd do him more good than if
I spent the nearly $2000 to have everything shipped back here. Sure, I could
have sold them out in Oregon for an insane high price, but that wouldn't
have helped out my buddy any and, considering as I had lucked out and
obtained them for next to nothing anyway, It wasn't much of a financial hit.
I have replaced most of what I had out there for  about 1/2 of what it would
have cost me to ship them here. The ex got the car, the house, and damn near
everything in the divorce and I was reduced to taking a grayhound back home
to stay with the folks for a year. Now, I am remarried, have a house, and
have the time to take the craft back up. 

I'm not sure what the dig about my email address is about, but considering
as I own the domain name, it's far simpler and easier for folks to remember
than jasonnass at wargoth-dot-com or similar. It has nothing what-so-ever to do
with charity. 

Jason Nass - me at wargoth.com

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of peter fels & phoebe
palmer
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:19 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] The mind 1st to go

 Oh Jason:
Why aren't you out combing the yard sales, swap meets and talking to folks
like we did? That's how we got them.
If we don't sell them for market price,
how can we buy the tools we want ourselves?
How do we feed ourselves when we are too old to work?
Did you notice  our plush blacksmith's retirement plan?
I don't see any thought of your offering any alternative compensation here.
Charitable consideration for ME@ Wargoth?   WTF?
Grin...pf

On 10/12/2010 11:33 AM, Jason Nass wrote:
> Oh, you certainly won't take away the pleasure of tool making from me, 
> I do a heck of a lot of that already, and as for shedding tools at the 
> swap meets, too many of you guys get into the mindset of "how much 
> money can I get out of this" rather than pricing things so that you 
> are helping out the new guys. If you don't need it, and you aren't 
> desperate for the cash from it, pass it on. I keep hearing about how 
> someone picked up a nice anvil at a garage sale for $25 then turned 
> around and sold it for $300. Sure, it's capitalism, but it's also not
doing anything to help keep our craft alive.
> If you get a great deal on something pass it on...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason Nass - me at wargoth.com
> 
> 
> 
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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist
http://www.riesniemi.com/