[TheForge] Propane vs LPG

Sat Apr 10 19:08:52 EDT 2010

Anyone who thinks propane is safer than gasoline should watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl-JgyQA7u0

Yes, gasoline is volatile - i.e., it evaporates readily.  Propane, on
the other hand, is already a vapor (outside the tank), so no
evaporation is necessary!  Yes, gasoline is dangerous, almost as
dangerous as propane.  If you want a less dangerous fuel, try coal.

The major advantage to propane is the simplicity of constructing a
propane forge.  A gasoline forge would be more complicated.

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
> There are gasoline powered cutting torches, they have been around a
> long time. They are loud, fierce, and somewhat dangerous, and mostly
> used in industrial scrapping operations, as they are a bit overkill
> for a home shop.
> I sure wouldnt want a gasoline powered forge in my shop- the very
> minimal savings in dollars would be far overshadowed by the increased
> possibility of explosion from the fumes. Gasoline is volatile stuff.
>
> There have been plenty of fuel oil forges in industry. They have a
> certain minimum practical size, as I understand, and are very good at
> getting hot, but not really practical for a small, cheap, low hour
> usage. Grant Sarver used to use fuel oil forges when he ran his
> industrial drill factory, making chipping hammer points for
> jackhammers, but now that he is a one man band, he uses nice small
> manageable propane forges, and his inverter HF electric coil forges.
> If the fuel oil was practical for a small shop forge, I would guess
> Grant would use one- he certainly has a lot of experience with them.
>
> I think there is a reason why propane has ended up being the default
> small shop forge- its cheap, easy to build, safe, low maintanence, and
> doesnt put out a lot of smelly smoke.
>
> ries
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Bruce Freeman wrote:
>
> I just looked up Chemtane.  The MSDS says that Chemtane concentrate is
> a mixture of 5-carbon to 7- or 8-carbon hydrocarbons.  So the trick
> must be how to include those fuels and still get good vaporization.
> No problem if the fuel is warm enough, but otherwise a major problem.
> I don't know how they solved that.
>
> Still, this points up that other fuels than propane may be useful for
> some blacksmithing purposes.  Come up with a safe way to use gasoline
> as your fuel and you will have a very high BTU forge.  Or torch.
>
> If I were going to try this (not likely) I'd use a high-pressure,
> low-flow pump with a low-pressure cut-off feature (like an HPLC pump)
> to pump the gasoline from an outdoor storage container  through a SS
> tube 1/16" OD and maybe 0.010" ID.  Then, for a forge, I'd use a
> carburetor-type arrangement to convert liquid to vapor while mixing it
> at the proper ratio.  The mix I'd pass through a flame arrester (e.g.,
> a long mass of SS wool) and to the burner.  Clearly, this would have
> to be forced air.  And the carburetor section might have to be warmed
> to promote vaporization.
>
> This should be no more dangerous than the carburetor of a gasoline
> engine.  Which is not to say that it would be danger-free!
>
> I don't know enough about torches to suggest a design, but maybe the
> mixing could be liquid gas with forced air in a chamber immediately
> before the torch outlet, heated by the heat of the torch.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 10:53 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
>>
>> A couple of years ago, I switched to Chemtane for my forge.
>> It lasts longer, burns hotter, and in general, I like it better than
>> garden variety propane.
>> My local welding supply company has a big tank of it out back, and I
>> end up going there at least once a month or so to fill argon,
>> acetylene, oxygen, and mig gas tanks anyway, so its no big deal to
>> keep it full.
>>
>> I believe its a proprietary mix from the Chemtane company.
>> http://www.chemtane2.com/products/chemtane-2
>>
>> I live within 20 miles of 3 oil refineries, and probably a dozen small
>> shipyards, (small meaning they build ships up to about 250 feet in
>> length) so the local welding supply store is perhaps a bit more
>> industrially minded than most. Not all suppliers have this stuff.
>>
>> But for forges, it kicks butt. Its BTU output per cubic foot is double
>> that of acetylene, and a 25% more than propane.
>> It costs more, but when your round trip for a refill is, like mine
>> close to 45 minutes, less frequency of trips to refill alone saves me
>> money.
>>
>> I havent tried it yet with a torch, for cutting, but they say it is
>> excellent for that as well.
>>
>> Ries Niemi
>> Industrial Artist
>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Bruce
> NJ
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> Ries Niemi
> Industrial Artist
> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Bruce
NJ