[TheForge] Fw: forging contest

[ries]

I am really mixed about my feelings about the german system.
You cannot call yourself a cabinet maker, and make cabinets, in  
Germany, unless you are a journeyman.
Its the same with many other trades.
This is descended from the medieval guild system.

It means that the pros there are really pros- the chances of getting  
substandard work in many fields is much smaller.

But, of course, it means there is much less individual freedom to  
choose a career, and to make a living.
The germans seem to think its a fair tradeoff, and they live with it.

I dont think we, here in the USA, ever would. We are willing to put up  
with much more of a Caveat Emptor way of doing business, in exchange  
for the ability to reinvent yourself as anyone you want to be.

Here, for example, aside from a few large, union firms like Boeing,  
there is no formal machinist apprenticeship program, and anyone is  
free to buy a CNC mill, and call yourself a machinist. There, its just  
not legal.

We have lost a lot when we lost our big, company sponsored  
apprenticeship programs, which really trained people to do things  
right- nowadays, only a few fields, mostly union construction, like  
electrician or ironworker, still do apprenticeship programs.

I could not do half of what I do in a rigid country like Germany-  so  
I appreciate the freedom of the USA- but on the other hand, around  
here, they are still advertising for minimum wage mig welding jobs,  
second shift- while in Germany, if you take the time to learn the  
trade, you can make a decent wage at it.

I will not be moving to Germany , but that doesnt mean I dont see some  
of the advantages of their system.

Ries



On Mar 4, 2009, at 1:30 PM, Schade wrote:


On Mar 4, 2009, at 12:43 PM, ries wrote:

> Dave, as far as I know, this test is required of every German
> apprentice, even today.
> There is something to be said for good old fashioned unions- in
> Germany, the Unions have enough influence, including seats on the
> boards of directors of steel mills and car makers, to ensure that it
> is legally required to actually know what you are doing before you can
> call yourself a machinist. Or a cabinetmaker, butcher, or, even a
> blacksmith.
>
>
> ries


It's not really that much different here in the USofA. You have to
have a special license to drive a truck. Even more special if you are
hauling hazardous materials. You have to be licensed to be a medical
doctor or a lawyer. Here in Minnesota you have to be licensed to be a
barber or cosmetologist. You have to have a special license to be a
plumber or electrician. Certified public accountants have to be
certified as do certified weldors.

Farmers around here have pass a test if they are going to be spraying
certain chemicals. Teachers have to have a teaching license and
continuing education in their field.

I would have to be convinced that there could be any problem with an
unlicensed butcher tho. Or an unlicensed barber. And it might make
sense to be a certified forger if you are forging crane hooks but it
wouldn't really worry me if the guy who sells candleholders in the
park has a license.

But  thats just me.

Bob
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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist
http://www.riesniemi.com/