[TheForge] TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
GRAF
adveniam at att.net
Mon Jan 26 10:16:44 EST 2009
What kind of things do you make?
I went to an UMBA meeting a while back and the demonstrator was using
induction coils to heat the work. FAST.
For smaller items it would be perfect.
Mike Graf
Lucky7Steel wrote:
> Thanks everyone for all the helpful info.
>
> i'm worried for all the reasons you all listed but also because i also
> have three other tanks in the studio (as someone else mentioned as
> well). I don't have access to the outside on the wall of the studio
> because the studio building had a residential house on the other side
> that ironically used to be a welding studio (but no access anymore). I
> don't plan anything fancy other than just some ornamental forging.
> I've got a full metalshop which i've had for many years but just
> getting into the forge stuff.
> so, i guess i'll just get a few bbq tanks for now since i can't seem
> to get anyone to deliver me a tank inside. I'm very sensitive to the
> carbon m. stuff i know since i almost passed out a few times in my
> blacksmith course and had to keep opening the door there. So i'm
> gathering i should keep an open window above it for air and turn my
> fume extractor over it once in awhile? I was rebuilding a squirrel
> cage exhaust in the window near it. What i have is one wall of windows
> where the forge is, one can be open but onenext to it has the fume
> thing. Is this pointless because they are side by side windows?
> thoughts?
> thanks again. i was so excited about the forge now i'm just worried
> which is so sad.
> ~K~
>
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 10:46 PM, <theforge-request at mailman.qth.net
> <mailto:theforge-request at mailman.qth.net>> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. indoor forges (Lucky7Steel)
> 2. Re: indoor forges (sos at frii.com <mailto:sos at frii.com>)
> 3. Re: indoor forges (ries)
> 4. Re: indoor forges (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
> 5. Re: indoor forges (PlumDon at aol.com <mailto:PlumDon at aol.com>)
> 6. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Jerry Frost)
> 7. Re: indoor forges (Jerry Frost)
> 8. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Andrew Vida)
> 9. Re: "Sea Kittens"??? OT (Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:37:58 -0500
> From: Lucky7Steel <lucky7steel at gmail.com
> <mailto:lucky7steel at gmail.com>>
> Subject: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
>
> <d88673cd0901211337h742299e5k959d93d5c3ebeaca at mail.gmail.com
> <mailto:d88673cd0901211337h742299e5k959d93d5c3ebeaca at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi there,
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it.
> I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my new
> forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> ~K~
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:49:38 -0700 (MST)
> From: sos at frii.com <mailto:sos at frii.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4670.74.209.46.210.1232574578.squirrel at users.frii.com
> <mailto:4670.74.209.46.210.1232574578.squirrel at users.frii.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I have mine indoors. The local propane company put a big bottle (200
> gallons?) just outside the shop, feeding a furnace (low pressure) and
> installed a high pressure line with a ball valve on the end in the
> shop
> for the forge (with my regulator). They didn't feel comfortable
> giving me
> more than 15psi, but that works fine.
>
> Propane is heavier than air, and can collect in low spots. It
> would be a
> real bad idea to run in the basement.
>
> The other issue with any indoor combustion is carbon monoxide. You
> must
> have a good outside air supply to the forge, and a good way to
> exhaust it
> after burning (a chimney...). This is very important. Adding a CO
> detector
> is a fine idea, they are pretty cheap. I'd get the kind with a
> readout if
> I was going to do it again.
>
> Steve
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering
> where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel
> better about
> > it.
> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my
> > new
> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:22:40 -0800
> From: ries <ries at riesniemi.com <mailto:ries at riesniemi.com>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <9F113BCD-0DC9-412C-A9BF-1A9CCDF1BE92 at riesniemi.com
> <mailto:9F113BCD-0DC9-412C-A9BF-1A9CCDF1BE92 at riesniemi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I run my propane forge inside the shop.
> I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
> and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
> Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I also
> have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
> tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare propane
> tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
>
> Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
> cause me to stop breathing.
> I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
> keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
> sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
> I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop, but so
> far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten years
> or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that, quality
> of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
>
> Ries
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I just put
> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> ~K~
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> password: anvil
> ___________
>
>
>
> Ries Niemi
> Industrial Artist
> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:38:09 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net
> <mailto:artgawk at thegrid.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977B1E1.80504 at thegrid.net
> <mailto:4977B1E1.80504 at thegrid.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Comes down to a question of ventilation, both high and low.
> Got that and you are most of the way to OK..pf
>
> ries wrote:
> > I run my propane forge inside the shop.
> > I have a 100lb propane tank, the size that is about 18" in diameter
> > and 4 feet tall, on the cart that the forge is mounted on.
> > Not too worried about storing the propane tank in the shop, as I
> also
> > have acetylene, oxygen, a few argons, and some carbon dioxide mix
> > tanks, as well as a couple of small propane tanks and a spare
> propane
> > tank for the forklift, all stored inside too.
> >
> > Of more concern to me is the combustion giving off gases that might
> > cause me to stop breathing.
> > I do have a big, sliding garage door, but unless its hot, I usually
> > keep that closed while forging. I also have exhaust fans, that I
> > sometimes run, with a window open, to run air thru the shop.
> > I keep meaning to buy a carbon monoxide detector, for the shop,
> but so
> > far, nobody has passed out or gotten headaches, in the last ten
> years
> > or so of running the forge in the shop, so I am guessing that,
> quality
> > of breathable atmosphere wise, the forge isnt killing us.
> >
> > Ries
> >
> > On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Lucky7Steel wrote:
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering
> where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> > about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
> just put
> > together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
> > Ries Niemi
> > Industrial Artist
> > http://www.riesniemi.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:40:43 EST
> From: PlumDon at aol.com <mailto:PlumDon at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <c18.4aa65130.36a90c7b at aol.com
> <mailto:c18.4aa65130.36a90c7b at aol.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Of the dozens of blacksmiths I know that use propane every one of
> them runs
> the forge inside their shop. My shop is too far from a delivery
> point so I
> have three 100 pound containers that I trek around to get filled
> and keep them
> lined up outside the shop. Copper tubing through a hole punched
> in the
> concrete wall takes the gas to the forge. I always have an upper
> window open.
> There's a shutoff at the tank and another at the forge. I shut
> them both off when
> done. It's possible someone could open them both up, the propane
> would fill up
> the shop and when I opened the door next morning kaboom. But been
> ok for the
> last 22 years. It's possible the gas tank in my truck was
> punctured on the
> way home today and it all leaked out during the night. When I
> start it in the
> morning it could go kaboom. But we exercise reasonable measures
> of care and
> safety and we do fine.
>
>
> Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> I assume people do but i'm having propane worries. I'm wondering
> where
> people get their propane and hoping people can make me feel better
> about it. I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
> just put
> together my new forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:27:56 -0900
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net
> <mailto:akfrosty at mtaonline.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <FA5351D6D4534C83B3762096B58382CA at albatross>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> "FIGHIN" words?
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
>
> > Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >
> > Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >> jerry.
> >> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >> wet, pant, pant.
> >> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:41:54 -0900
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net
> <mailto:akfrosty at mtaonline.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] indoor forges
> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <62A6067BD2D843B893D2C43EDB904F4A at albatross>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> No gas company will encourage you to build and operate
> a home made gas appliance. The liability they'd be
> exposed to if you blew yourself up, burned yourself out
> or poisoned yourself would wipe them out. They have to
> try discouraging you. If you're not sure of what you're
> doing or aren't familiar with experimenting your way
> through inherently dangerous endeavors I won't
> encourage you to try either.
>
> That said, propane is heavier than air and will settle
> in low spots waiting for a spark to ignite. Carbon
> monoxide is also heavier than air and will pool in low
> places waiting to displace the oxy in your hemoglobin
> and kill you. The forge burner will consume large
> amounts of oxygen and if you don't replace it you'll
> run short sooner or later. The forge burner will also
> make unpleasant byproducts like water vapor to condence
> on your tools and machinery and rust them right up.
> It'll also be generally acidic condensate as well
> seeing as a properly operating forge is hot enough to
> make nitrous oxide as a by product to assist in
> corroding your tools and equipment.
>
> Most of this can be solved by taking basic precautions.
> Do not operate a propane appliance of any kind where a
> leak can settle into low places like a grease pit or
> basement. Ventilation to remove heavy gasses is a
> really good idea. Heck, a must.
>
> 1/4 turn gas rated (red handle) valves where you can
> get to them in an emergency is a really good idea.
>
> Be sure you have a couple fire extinguishers close to
> the exits too. Don't put them where you think a fire
> might break out. If one does your fire extinguisher is
> going to be IN the fire itself OR you'll find yourself
> running the WRONG way in an emergency. If you're locky
> there will be a narrow window where one person with a
> fire extinguisher can put it out but we're talking
> seconds. If you're caught on the wrong side of a fire
> when that window closes it may be curtains for you.
> Best to have the extinguishers by the exits so when you
> get to them and turn around you can see it's too late
> and get out. Getting OUT is the important thing, not
> saving a shop, some tools, etc.
>
> It's good you're asking these questions now and not
> after you're hospitalized for CO poisoning or waiting
> for the ashes to cool enough to see what you can
> salvage.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Lucky7Steel" <lucky7steel at gmail.com
> <mailto:lucky7steel at gmail.com>>
>
>
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Do any of you folks have inside forges?
> > I assume people do but i'm having propane worries.
> > I'm wondering where
> > people get their propane and hoping people can make
> > me feel better about it.
> > I know it's a no no if you ask the gas companies. I
> > just put together my new
> > forge and now i'm feeling so discouraged :-(
> >
> > ~K~
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:28:16 -0500
> From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977E7D0.2010308 at netlabs.net
> <mailto:4977E7D0.2010308 at netlabs.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
>
> Jerry Frost wrote:
> > "FIGHIN" words?
> >
> > Frosty
> > -------------------------------
> > If it ain't forged
> > it ain't real.
> > Wrought iron is.
> > The FrostWorks
> >
> > Meadow Lakes, AK.
> >
> >
> > From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> >
> >> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >>
> >> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >>> jerry.
> >>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >>> wet, pant, pant.
> >>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>>
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:46:02 -0800
> From: Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer <artgawk at thegrid.net
> <mailto:artgawk at thegrid.net>>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] "Sea Kittens"??? OT
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> <theforge at mailman.qth.net <mailto:theforge at mailman.qth.net>>
> Message-ID: <4977EBFA.50503 at thegrid.net
> <mailto:4977EBFA.50503 at thegrid.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Cause of missing teeth or cause they can't hear the consonants
> anymore?
>
> Andrew Vida wrote:
> > Old guys don't "fight", they "figh".
> >
> > Jerry Frost wrote:
> >> "FIGHIN" words?
> >>
> >> Frosty
> >> -------------------------------
> >> If it ain't forged
> >> it ain't real.
> >> Wrought iron is.
> >> The FrostWorks
> >>
> >> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net <mailto:osan at netlabs.net>>
> >>
> >>> Oooo... them's fighin' words.
> >>>
> >>> Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer wrote:
> >>>> We are too old now to have such ambitions anymore
> >>>> jerry.
> >>>> Why are you panning it? They are most everywhere
> >>>> wet, pant, pant.
> >>>> The thinking leans you to the zoo side some.
> >>>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> > theforge mail list group photo site is
> > http://www.photoaccess.com
> > Login: blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> <mailto:blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com>
> > password: anvil
> > ___________
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
>
>
>
>
> End of TheForge Digest, Vol 60, Issue 78
> ****************************************
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
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> password: anvil
> ___________
>
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