[TheForge] fire steels

Rich Maynard rich at maynard.org.uk
Fri May 16 18:36:59 EDT 2008 

But does it strike sparks...?

Richard Maynard - Artist Blacksmith
The Forge, Much Hadham, Hertfordshire SG10 6BS
 
The Forge Experience - be a blacksmith for a day!
http://www.muchhadhamforge.co.uk/experience.pdf
 
rich at muchhadhamforge.co.uk
www.muchhadhamforge.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter Hirst
Sent: 16 May 2008 23:07
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels


Oh.
Well.
Direct observation.
That's vey different.  Kind of like busting the myth that the Earth revolves

around the Sun.

Keziah


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels


> This is not a chemistry thing, this is direct observation.  Put a 
> piece of mild steel in the forge, get it so hot it burns in the forge
> - sparkles like Vesuvius.  Let it cool.  Ugly blistered steel.  Take 
> to grinder - tests as high carbon.  Try it yourself.
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 11:32 AM, David E. Smucker 
> <davesmucker at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you sure Bruce, just because iron is burning doesn't mean it is
>> somehow
>> taking up carbon.  Explain the chemistry -- for it to burn doesn't there
>> have to be excess O2?  Or is burning iron striping the O from CO.
>>
>> When burning or lancing steel the product I find are melted steel 
>> balls
>> and
>> red iron oxide.  When we cut up a large backup roll in my old day job 
>> (think
>> tank trucks of liquid O2) the lancing generated a heavy cloud of red iron
>> oxide.  I have never burned wrought or pure iron on the other hand.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:40 AM
>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" 
>> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>
>>> Even easier -- That piece of iron you burned in the forge while your 
>>> brain was where it shouldn't be - that has absorbed enough carbon to 
>>> be a striker.  Forge it into shape and  no need to use expensive 
>>> steel.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>> NJ
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer 
>>> <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Predictability in a striker seems less than critical.
>>>> They could have soaked a thin pieces of iron in a reducing fire for 
>>>> a while to make steel on the cheap i'd guess...pf
>>>>
>>>> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would hav ebeen the less-predictable blister steel as well!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Peter Hirst
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:42 PM
>>>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Didn't mean to suggest that wire was used in period, jus that I 
>>>>> was
>>>>> able
>>>>> to
>>>>> duplicate it that way.  It wasn't just general scarcity of steel in 
>>>>> the
>>>>> period, it was the particular circumstances of the colony in 1627. 
>>>>> Way
>>>>> before the period of Williamsburg.  Essentially subsistence 
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>  The
>>>>> amount of steel required for a single striker could steel a  large axe
>>>>> or
>>>>> dozens of  strikers, at a time when labor was a lot more plentiful 
>>>>> than
>>>>> materials. The smith did not make his living at it.  Was literally 
>>>>> dirt
>>>>> poor
>>>>> like everyone else. It was a huge deal that the colony received its
>>>>> first
>>>>> two head of cattle that year.  Imagine what a bit of steel was worth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Keziah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" 
>>>>> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> While it is true that "steel" was valuable and somewhat scarce in 
>>>>>> the 1600 and 1700 even harder to come by would be any form of 
>>>>>> high carbon wire.
>>>>>>  So
>>>>>> if "fire steels" in that time frame were steeled -- then the high
>>>>>> carbon
>>>>>> steel was drawn down to a small form by hammer forging.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The invention of the slitting mill was I believe in 1752 and was 
>>>>>> the precursor to the rolling mill.  It was first used on heave 
>>>>>> hammer iron plate to produce iron bars.  Later used to produce 
>>>>>> iron nail rod from hammer or rolled sheet.  Drawing of wire 
>>>>>> followed, but when Eli Whitney
>>>>>> was working on his invention of the cotton gin 1793 he had to make 
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> draw bench to draw high carbon wire because he could not purchase it.
>>>>>>  (At
>>>>>> least in the then USA).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of this is to say is that getting "small" section steel was a
>>>>>> labor
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> love in the 1600's and first half of the 1700's.  High carbon 
>>>>>> "blister"
>>>>>> steel had been around for some time at this point and files made from
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> tool steel were very important in the manufacture of all types of
>>>>>> equipment. Spring steel for clock making also drove technology in 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> time frame.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the most interesting parts about talking to the 
>>>>>> Williamsburg Blacksmiths at the BAM conference was the discussion 
>>>>>> about the pay and role of craft workers in the colonial time 
>>>>>> period and early USA.  By world
>>>>>> standards they were highly paid.  They did mostly repair and special
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> that earned them this high pay.  Production work was imported from
>>>>>> England
>>>>>> and the continent were labor costs were much lower.  Why the high pay
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> because in the Americas they could own land, and owning land was the
>>>>>> route
>>>>>> to wealth.  In England there was no land for them to own, no route to
>>>>>> wealth, a good supply of craftsman's so their earning were lower.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lesson to be learned -- blacksmiths should charge as much for 
>>>>>> their work today as plumbers and electricians.  It is the story 
>>>>>> of supply and demand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> From: "osan" <osan at netlabs.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:16 PM
>>>>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA"
>>>>>> <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Hirst wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry , thought the reason was clear:  steel was extremely 
>>>>>>>> scarce, using the wire was a conservation measure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  OK, I could see this... at least in circumstances anyhow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  -Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bruce
>>> NJ
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Manage membership or unsubscribe at: 
>>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
>>> theforge mail list group photo site is http://www.photoaccess.com
>>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
>>> password:  anvil
>>> ___________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Bruce
> NJ
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
>
>
> 

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