[TheForge] fire steels

Thu May 15 11:32:15 EDT 2008

Are you sure Bruce, just because iron is burning doesn't mean it is somehow 
taking up carbon.  Explain the chemistry -- for it to burn doesn't there 
have to be excess O2?  Or is burning iron striping the O from CO.

When burning or lancing steel the product I find are melted steel balls and 
red iron oxide.  When we cut up a large backup roll in my old day job (think 
tank trucks of liquid O2) the lancing generated a heavy cloud of red iron 
oxide.  I have never burned wrought or pure iron on the other hand.

Dave

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Bruce Freeman" <freemab222 at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 9:40 AM
To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels

> Even easier -- That piece of iron you burned in the forge while your
> brain was where it shouldn't be - that has absorbed enough carbon to
> be a striker.  Forge it into shape and  no need to use expensive
> steel.
>
> Bruce
> NJ
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 3:29 AM, Peter Fels & Phoebe Palmer
> <artgawk at thegrid.net> wrote:
>> Predictability in a striker seems less than critical.
>> They could have soaked a thin pieces of iron in a reducing fire for a 
>> while
>> to make steel on the cheap i'd guess...pf
>>
>> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>>>
>>> It would hav ebeen the less-predictable blister steel as well!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Peter Hirst
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:42 PM
>>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>
>>>
>>> Didn't mean to suggest that wire was used in period, jus that I was able
>>> to
>>> duplicate it that way.  It wasn't just general scarcity of steel in the
>>> period, it was the particular circumstances of the colony in 1627.   Way
>>> before the period of Williamsburg.  Essentially subsistence conditions.
>>>  The
>>> amount of steel required for a single striker could steel a  large axe 
>>> or
>>> dozens of  strikers, at a time when labor was a lot more plentiful than
>>> materials. The smith did not make his living at it.  Was literally dirt
>>> poor
>>> like everyone else. It was a huge deal that the colony received its 
>>> first
>>> two head of cattle that year.  Imagine what a bit of steel was worth.
>>>
>>> Keziah
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David E. Smucker" <davesmucker at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>
>>>
>>>> While it is true that "steel" was valuable and somewhat scarce in the
>>>> 1600
>>>> and 1700 even harder to come by would be any form of high carbon wire.
>>>>  So
>>>> if "fire steels" in that time frame were steeled -- then the high 
>>>> carbon
>>>> steel was drawn down to a small form by hammer forging.
>>>>
>>>> The invention of the slitting mill was I believe in 1752 and was the
>>>> precursor to the rolling mill.  It was first used on heave hammer iron
>>>> plate to produce iron bars.  Later used to produce iron nail rod from
>>>> hammer or rolled sheet.  Drawing of wire followed, but when Eli Whitney
>>>> was working on his invention of the cotton gin 1793 he had to make his
>>>> own
>>>> draw bench to draw high carbon wire because he could not purchase it.
>>>>  (At
>>>> least in the then USA).
>>>>
>>>> All of this is to say is that getting "small" section steel was a labor
>>>> of
>>>> love in the 1600's and first half of the 1700's.  High carbon "blister"
>>>> steel had been around for some time at this point and files made from
>>>> this
>>>> tool steel were very important in the manufacture of all types of
>>>> equipment. Spring steel for clock making also drove technology in this
>>>> time frame.
>>>>
>>>> One of the most interesting parts about talking to the Williamsburg
>>>> Blacksmiths at the BAM conference was the discussion about the pay and
>>>> role of craft workers in the colonial time period and early USA.  By
>>>> world
>>>> standards they were highly paid.  They did mostly repair and special 
>>>> work
>>>> that earned them this high pay.  Production work was imported from
>>>> England
>>>> and the continent were labor costs were much lower.  Why the high 
>>>> pay --
>>>> because in the Americas they could own land, and owning land was the
>>>> route
>>>> to wealth.  In England there was no land for them to own, no route to
>>>> wealth, a good supply of craftsman's so their earning were lower.
>>>>
>>>> Lesson to be learned -- blacksmiths should charge as much for their 
>>>> work
>>>> today as plumbers and electricians.  It is the story of supply and
>>>> demand.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: "osan" <osan at netlabs.net>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 4:16 PM
>>>> To: "Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] fire steels
>>>>
>>>>> Peter Hirst wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry , thought the reason was clear:  steel was extremely scarce,
>>>>>> using
>>>>>> the wire was a conservation measure.
>>>>>
>>>>>   OK, I could see this... at least in circumstances anyhow.
>>>>>
>>>>>   -Andy
>>>>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Bruce
> NJ
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