[TheForge] Re:Starving Artist

[Ekaterina Harrison]

Hi Frosty,

> So how about telling us what
> you do with your treasure filled land. I'm kind of
> envious myself, all we had on this land when we bought
> it was trees, bushes and moose. So far I haven't found
> a single piece of good scrounge since we moved here.
> <sigh>


As I said earlier, I built much of my shop and equipment out of this  
stuff. I take a walk through there from time to time to see what else  
I may discover, get ideas from and use. There really is quite a  
variety of stuff there. It is an old homestead that also had a sawmill  
on it with much heavy equipment. There are dozer tracks, huge saw  
blades, farm equipment (all the way back from horse drawn to tractor  
driven), antique cars, roller chain,gears, pipe, a big bunch of wood  
and a whole lot more.  Really cool stuff! It does have a few draw  
backs though. The "junk" is scattered through out the whole property  
and is a bit of an eyesore overall. It is going to take a long time to  
clean it up and sort out the "good junk" from the garbage. So, I  
wouldn't complain about a clean bush, tree and moose infested  
property. Afterall, beauty does wonders for the soul. I would really  
like to see this property regain its natural beauty.

> I'm not saying you shouldn't be competitive, if you can
> do an equivalent job for 1/4 what the competition can
> and make a profit you should by all means undercut them
> by 1/2. It'll be good for both of you. The competition
> will have incentive to get better, faster, more
> efficient, whatever it takes or find something s/he's
> better at to make a living, and you'll have the
> satisfaction of being a superior competitor. It feels
> good, REALLY good.

I have struggled for quite a long time with making bids and trying to  
figure out just how long a project would take. As almost every time I  
am trying something new, most of the time I can at best do a  
calculated guess.  Of course, often it is way of the mark because I  
missed unknown details or simply overlooked some details. Then one day  
it was suggested to me that I simply tell my clients that I work on  
time and materials, as so many contractors do.  This is what I did and  
continue to do. Working this way I make better money then I ever have  
and I feel more freedom as I am not constantly worrying about  
underbidding or overcharging. I was worried about doing this in the  
first place as I ASSUMED that my clients would demand a firm bid.  
However, after working with my clients, I realized that my clients  
want to have a unique piece of art or functional art that works for  
them specifically. From my experience, I find that in this kind of  
work fluidity is very important and often includes changes and  
improvisations in mid-project. This of course makes bidding even  
harder. I simply let my clients know that because there are so many  
unknown variables, for me to do a bid I would either have to seriously  
overbid to make sure I don't undermine myself or run a huge risk of  
loosing on my side. I let them know that in my opinion working on time  
and materials is most honest to both parties. Usually I provide a  
general estimate and work out the details of the design with my  
clients to best suit their budget and desires and we continue to  
communicate as the project unfolds.

Ekaterina

On Mar 26, 2008, at 5:11 PM, theforge-request at mailman.qth.net wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:28:29 -0800
> From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: Starving artist
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <01b901c88f77$927e9ab0$7101a8c0 at albatross>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=response
>
> Hi back Ekaterina and welcome aboard, or welcome out of
> lurk mode, or . . . <grin> Whatever.
>
> I'm glad you clarified (LAMOF) for me, I do that a lot,
> I just didn't know the anagram. I don't text anybody so
> it's all a mystery to me except what I see on TV.
>
> What you describe is the danger you face when watching
> for hazards. You all too often find what you're looking
> for, it's like looking at a pothole while you're
> driving. If you do, you'll hit it every time, you have
> to look for/at the path past the hazard to clear it.
>
> I never figured myself for a career lug either but here
> I am retired from a civil service position after 30
> years. Not a whole lot to recommend it, didn't pay
> great while I was employed, had to eat way too much
> crap and watching the institutionalized waste is
> frustrating in the extreme. The only really good thing
> about it is the medical bennies, the money still isn't
> terrific but with everything paid off it'll suffice.
>
> You also strike to the heart of what working as a
> skilled craftsman/woman. (I refuse to use person or
> crafter. Brings me the image of crap hot glued to a
> stick. Ugh!) The materials are a small part of a craft,
> knowlege is what allows us to make things, provided a
> person has the knack for doing things that is. Some
> folk don't have a doing knack so they have to become:
> agents, critics, lawyers, politicians and other such
> bottom feeders. It's okay, there're a lot of
> non-creative jobs that need doing. To be fair, not all
> making knackless folk are bottom feeders, for example,
> I think non-creative book keepers are treasures to be
> cherished.
>
> Anyway, it's our knowlege the customer is paying for, I
> could ignore the price of steel and it wouldn't cut
> into profits that much. Usually the price of new steel
> is far less than 10% of what I charge. When I get to
> charge someone that is. <wistful sigh> I've been a
> hobbyist smith most of my life and will probably only
> go semi-pro now. Since I was around 10 I've wanted a
> wrought iron shop with an attitude. The attitude being
> the customer isn't doing me a favor buying my work so
> at least be polite when you ask me to do something for
> you. (I know, pretty bad. Huh?) Of course you have to
> have everything paid off to make this work, unless
> you're REALLY talented which I'm not.
>
> What it all boils down to is time. The ONLY thing we
> have on this earth is our time and we don't know how
> much we have till the timer rings us out. To not charge
> what our time is worth is doing us, our customers and
> our compatriots a serious disservice.
>
> I'm not saying you shouldn't be competitive, if you can
> do an equivalent job for 1/4 what the competition can
> and make a profit you should by all means undercut them
> by 1/2. It'll be good for both of you. The competition
> will have incentive to get better, faster, more
> efficient, whatever it takes or find something s/he's
> better at to make a living, and you'll have the
> satisfaction of being a superior competitor. It feels
> good, REALLY good.
>
> Glad you delurked Darlin. So how about telling us what
> you do with your treasure filled land. I'm kind of
> envious myself, all we had on this land when we bought
> it was trees, bushes and moose. So far I haven't found
> a single piece of good scrounge since we moved here.
> <sigh>
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>