[TheForge] Re: File Making, sniffing up wrought iron

[David E. Smucker]

The simple answer is "I don't know for sure".  This "transformer iron" is 
used in both transformers core and motor laminations.  The problem is that 
the other form, with 2 to 3 percent or more of Si is more common.  I think 
you could tell the difference between them because the Si-Steel is very 
strong, and would be hard to bend while the pure iron would be very easy to 
bend.  The best place to look for this would be from a motor and transformer 
rewinding shop.  They may scrap it out in some cases as well has knowing 
which is which.  Many large motors and transformer are rewound because of 
damage to the copper winding and not the rest of the transformer or motor.

BE AWARE, that many older industrial transformer were filled with PCB's, not 
something you want to mess with.  Many have had the PCB's replaced and the 
units cleaned up but you have no way of knowing what you would get into in a 
scrap yard.  This is not a factor in dry transformers or motors.

Some of the EE on this list may have better information than I.  My 
knowledge of this comes from the rolling mill side and the manufacture of 
the steel, not it's end use.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Washington, Aubrey O." <awashington at ou.edu>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 2:47 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Re: File Making, sniffing up wrought iron


Dave,

Is scrap pure iron available from old transformers, etc.?  Does this stuff 
end up in the metal recycling yards?

Aubrey

________________________________________
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net [theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On 
Behalf Of David E. Smucker [davesmucker at hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:10 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: File Making, sniffing up  wrought iron

Frosty,  I believe the pure iron made today is being made via an electric
arc furnace.  It is really being produced as "transformer iron" for use in
some types of transformer and other magnetic devices.  It is produced in
sheet form.  This is quite a bit of this produced but not as much as some of
the other transformer irons with high Si content.  (Pure Si, not the oxide.)
The blacksmithing pure iron was (is) produced by taking some heats of this
material and running it to bar stock.

To the best of my knowledge there are no Bessemer Furnaces still in
operation.  (Air Blast)  There are a lot of Basic Oxygen Furnaces operating
producing about 60 % of the worlds raw steel.  Some have called BOF the "son
of Bessemer" as the blast is now Oxygen vs. Air.  The BOF can take a feed of
about 1/3 scrap vs. little or no scrap in the Bessemer.  In the BOF you
don't have to heat the N2, so you can melt scrap instead.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Frost" <akfrosty at mtaonline.net>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: File Making, sniffing up wrought iron


> This leads me to delve back into the recollections that I was mistaken
> about regarding when wrought was last produced in the US. (lousy sentence
> but understandable I hope)
>
>>From what I recall reading; after the bessemer process
> became wide spread, production of wrought fell off sharply and mild steel
> became more and more the norm for construction and other things wrought
> was used for. Still, there was a large market for wrought iron and for a
> period bessemer processed pure iron was sold as wrought, later specific
> amounts of silica was added to make "bessemer wrought." (I'm using a
> descriptive phrase here, that's almost certainly not what it was actually
> called)
>
> Again, my memory is probably not clear so I'm sure details are wrong. I've
> looked through my bookmarks and read myself cross-eyed but can't find the
> link I probably lost it in the last crash.
>
> Anyway, I strongly doubt fresh wrought is being produced the way they did
> it 150 years ago. The ore or scrap is probably refined and purified via
> the Bessemer process and silica added back in to make up "wrought". It's
> them refined under rolls rather than hammers.
>
> Pure iron is probably taken out of the process before alloying agents are
> added and actually requires less labor, materials and fuel to produce. But
> as all small batch products costs more.
>
> I'll go sit quietly now.
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
>
> From: "Andrew Vida" <osan at netlabs.net>
>
>> The front page is interesting in that mewonders if they have confused
>> pure iron with wrought.  To wit, it states:
>>
>> "Pure Iron is a high-purity iron that is very ductile and the preferred
>> material for forging and decorative metal work. While very popular in the
>> first half of the 20th century, its use was reduced by the development of
>> new steel alloys and high production costs."
>>
>> I do not recall pure iron being popular in the era up to 1950, but
>> perhaps I am mistaken.  Also, referring to it as "ductile" rather than
>> malleable leads me to suspect.  Wrought iron is ductile (uni-axial
>> deformable) whereas pure iron is malleable (multi-axially deformable).
>>
>> Just an observation.
>>
>> -Andy
>>
>
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