[TheForge] File Making

[Grant Marcoux]

Sports fans:  I have made files from water-hardening tool steel (W-1) with
good results.  When hardening, I protect them from excessive oxygen exposure
using sure weld flux.  This is put on when the piece is a nice red color, so
as to make the flux flow a bit.  kasenit is used in a smiliar manner, though
at a brighter color for the first dip into the compound.  Successive kasenit
dips increase the carburization of the piece.  this seems to be acase of
similar-appearing processes being used for two effects.  The flux coat
insulates from oxygen,preventing decarburization while the kasenit transfers
carbon to the piece.  How IRONic.

Grant

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of David E. Smucker
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:23 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: Re: [TheForge] File Making


Could be anything -- but I still don't think it is case hardening at work.
Several reasons,  the Japanese are very strong on traditional methods, which
means high carbon plain steel.  Also in I think the second segment you see
the craftsman loading what I assume to be an annealing oven, again if this
was a case hardening low carbon steel there would be no need to anneal after
forging.  By the way case hardening of something's doesn't mean cheap -- the
very best roller bearings are case harden, very deep case, as much as 0.060
deep and the core is a very tough alloy steel similar to 4120.  (Timken,
which in my experience with very large bearings are the world's best.)  Same
is true for high performance large gear sets.  Still I don't like case
hardened files, I a traditionalist.

Great video, and I continue to learn from this discussion.  Thanks Frosty
for finding / sharing.

Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hirst" <saltydog335 at aol.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [TheForge] File Making


> Could it be a compound like Kasenit?  The time still seems short . . .
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wmullett at bright.net>
> To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 4:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: [TheForge] File Making
>
>
>> Thinking furthur ... and probably too much.  I don't think any carbon
>> will last long on the surface in the heat area before it is burned off.
>> I think that's why Cussler put his flintlock pieces to be case hardened
>> in a crucible with lid.
>> ============================================================
>> From: James Binnion <jbin at well.com>
>> Date: Wed Mar 19, 1:01 PM
>> To: GHS at execpc.com,  Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] File Making
>>
>> It can take hours for the carbon to migrate even a few thousandths of
>> an inch. I think Dave is correct about the decarburization prevention
>> and the reason for applying the powder at heat is so that it will melt/
>> stick to the surface.
>>
>>> I may be exposing my ignorance here, but my understanding was that
>>> the length of the heat in case hardening affected the depth of the
>>> carbon enrichment.
>>> If the concern was hardening the sharpened edges on the file there
>>> is not much to be had in terms of depth at that point.
>>>
>>> Might that be part of the answer?
>>>
>>> Mike Graf
>>>
>>
>> James Binnion
>> jbin at well.com
>>
>>
>>
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