[TheForge] jobs

Tue Jun 10 15:48:25 EDT 2008

Time to invoke Godwin's Law. We are treading into the argument zone that has
nothing to do with any kind of metalworking, but will lead to bad feelings.
You may want to take this discussion private. As much as I like a good
argument (insert Monty Python skit), I don't like doing it without seeing
the other person. So I tend to avoid it in this e-mail setting where the
written word can communicate more harshly.
Those that want to continue this in theforge forum, please mark it Off Topic
(OT).

Have a great day.

Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Grover.Richardson at gtri.gatech.edu
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:40 PM
To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [TheForge] jobs

Seig Heil

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:25 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs

So you are 100% OK with the government being able to detain and
imprison US citizens with no proof or evidence ever being offered?

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:46 AM,  <Grover.Richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
wrote:
> Yes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:30 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs
>
> I understand that.  But he was not in the military.  He was a normal
> US citizen.  Bush just decided he was an enemy combatant, and no proof
> was offered for over three years.  That's one of the reasons the
> Patriot Act helped to erode our rights and civil liberties.  Our
> president can now legally decide we are enemy combatants, offer no
> proof, and 'disappear' us to a military compound for an indefinite
> amount of time.  Our president can also give this power to people that
> he designates as well.  Does that make you sleep well at night?
>
> Jim
> Eugene, OR
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM,  <Grover.Richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
> wrote:
>> If you are in a military prison, this is not the same thing as being
> in
>> a public prison.  I leave the other political bs alone, as ot<G>.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:14 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs
>>
>> I recently visited Chile, it was interesting to talk light politics
>> with one of our cab drivers, but due to things you pointed out, I
>> think the Chileans are only comfortable 'lightly' talking politics.
>> Pinochet was not that long ago...
>>
>> I think I understand what you are saying, but I really think we are
>> slipping in some areas.  And while we used to have a good track
>> record, we are starting to head down those roads.  Infact, one of the
>> things you have pointed out has already happened.  Bush Co. has
pulled
>> US citizens off of the streets (or out of the airports I should say)
>> and placed them in jail for years with no charges being pressed.  You
>> can read a short account about it here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%29
>>
>> Jose Padilla was an American Citizen that was held in a military
>> prison for 3.5 years with no trial.
>>
>> Anyway, point being, I agree with many of the points you make, but
>> while they may be true, I still think we have a lot of room for
>> improvement and I think the direction we have been heading in is the
>> wrong one.
>>
>> It was very refreshing to hear about Kucinich presenting articles of
>> Impeachment against Bush yesterday.  Makes me think there is still
>> some hope out there.
>>
>> Jim
>> Eugene, OR
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:54 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
>>> Jim, I am no fan of Bush/Cheney, and am thoroughly disgusted by the
>> way they
>>> have been shredding the constitution.
>>> But have you been to any other countries lately?
>>> Been to Thailand, or Sri Lanka, China or Turkey, Argentina or
Mexico,
>> Greece
>>> or Morroco?
>>> I travel a lot, and while I have not been to all of the above, I
have
>> been
>>> to many- and in most countries beyond the USA, Canada, and Western
>> Europe,
>>> the governments actually do the stuff we are afraid Bush CAN do.
>>> The pull people off the streets, and throw em in jail for years with
>> no
>>> charges.
>>> Bodies are found floating the harbor without fingers or heads.
>>> Businesses are confiscated, or nationalised, bank accounts emptied.
>>>
>>> In the USA, the vast majority of people who are not of arab descent
>> can run
>>> a business relatively unimpeded- and this is just not true in about
>> 80% of
>>> the world.
>>>
>>> ries
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Jim Beard wrote:
>>>
>>> Better transparency then whom?  That's a very subjective statement.
>>> Our transparency of government has diminished greatly under the Bush
>>> administration.  Bush seems to believe that he can use 'executive
>>> privilege' to keep any person that works under him in any capacity
>>> from being called before a congressional oversight committee for any
>>> reason.  That's not very transparent.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:13 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... we have
>>>> better transparency of government, ...
>>>>
>>>> I have a lot of faith in america.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ries Niemi
>>>> Industrial Artist
>>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> Ries Niemi
>>> Industrial Artist
>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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