[TheForge] jobs

Tue Jun 10 14:39:58 EDT 2008

Seig Heil

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:25 PM
To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs

So you are 100% OK with the government being able to detain and
imprison US citizens with no proof or evidence ever being offered?

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:46 AM,  <Grover.Richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
wrote:
> Yes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:30 PM
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs
>
> I understand that.  But he was not in the military.  He was a normal
> US citizen.  Bush just decided he was an enemy combatant, and no proof
> was offered for over three years.  That's one of the reasons the
> Patriot Act helped to erode our rights and civil liberties.  Our
> president can now legally decide we are enemy combatants, offer no
> proof, and 'disappear' us to a military compound for an indefinite
> amount of time.  Our president can also give this power to people that
> he designates as well.  Does that make you sleep well at night?
>
> Jim
> Eugene, OR
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM,  <Grover.Richardson at gtri.gatech.edu>
> wrote:
>> If you are in a military prison, this is not the same thing as being
> in
>> a public prison.  I leave the other political bs alone, as ot<G>.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Beard
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:14 PM
>> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] jobs
>>
>> I recently visited Chile, it was interesting to talk light politics
>> with one of our cab drivers, but due to things you pointed out, I
>> think the Chileans are only comfortable 'lightly' talking politics.
>> Pinochet was not that long ago...
>>
>> I think I understand what you are saying, but I really think we are
>> slipping in some areas.  And while we used to have a good track
>> record, we are starting to head down those roads.  Infact, one of the
>> things you have pointed out has already happened.  Bush Co. has
pulled
>> US citizens off of the streets (or out of the airports I should say)
>> and placed them in jail for years with no charges being pressed.  You
>> can read a short account about it here:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%29
>>
>> Jose Padilla was an American Citizen that was held in a military
>> prison for 3.5 years with no trial.
>>
>> Anyway, point being, I agree with many of the points you make, but
>> while they may be true, I still think we have a lot of room for
>> improvement and I think the direction we have been heading in is the
>> wrong one.
>>
>> It was very refreshing to hear about Kucinich presenting articles of
>> Impeachment against Bush yesterday.  Makes me think there is still
>> some hope out there.
>>
>> Jim
>> Eugene, OR
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:54 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
>>> Jim, I am no fan of Bush/Cheney, and am thoroughly disgusted by the
>> way they
>>> have been shredding the constitution.
>>> But have you been to any other countries lately?
>>> Been to Thailand, or Sri Lanka, China or Turkey, Argentina or
Mexico,
>> Greece
>>> or Morroco?
>>> I travel a lot, and while I have not been to all of the above, I
have
>> been
>>> to many- and in most countries beyond the USA, Canada, and Western
>> Europe,
>>> the governments actually do the stuff we are afraid Bush CAN do.
>>> The pull people off the streets, and throw em in jail for years with
>> no
>>> charges.
>>> Bodies are found floating the harbor without fingers or heads.
>>> Businesses are confiscated, or nationalised, bank accounts emptied.
>>>
>>> In the USA, the vast majority of people who are not of arab descent
>> can run
>>> a business relatively unimpeded- and this is just not true in about
>> 80% of
>>> the world.
>>>
>>> ries
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 10, 2008, at 9:43 AM, Jim Beard wrote:
>>>
>>> Better transparency then whom?  That's a very subjective statement.
>>> Our transparency of government has diminished greatly under the Bush
>>> administration.  Bush seems to believe that he can use 'executive
>>> privilege' to keep any person that works under him in any capacity
>>> from being called before a congressional oversight committee for any
>>> reason.  That's not very transparent.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 9:13 AM, ries <ries at riesniemi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... we have
>>>> better transparency of government, ...
>>>>
>>>> I have a lot of faith in america.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ries Niemi
>>>> Industrial Artist
>>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> Ries Niemi
>>> Industrial Artist
>>> http://www.riesniemi.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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