[TheForge] Re: pipe

[Ekaterina Harrison]

Paul, Andy and All,

This is a bit late, but, I do want to express my thanks to you for the  
advice regarding PVC.

I think you have pretty much convinced me out of using PVC for the air  
line.
Upon checking with the distributors, the distributors claim that PVC  
is just fine until it is left out in the sun. It is the UV ray that  
make the pipe brittle. From my own experience I have not had any  
problems with PVC water lines both buried or inside the house.  
However, non of these lines where left or installed in the sunny  
areas. I have certainly come across pipe that was left outside that  
was brittle.

>
> 	I don't think it is fear, it is... erm... *frugality*.
>
> 	You know how the Jews have the rap in some peoples' minds as being
> horrid little misers?  I don't think anyone can hold a candle to some
> smiths.  Instead of "jewing" someone down during negotiations, I think
> we should call it "smithing" them down.  Seriously, for such a great
> bunch of folks as smiths, I've seen few other groups of people who are
> as penny-wise and pound-foolish.  Getting all cheap about things like
> this makes no sense.  There are proper ways of plumbing for  
> pressurized
> air, and there are all the other ways.

While you do have a point. I do not think that this is the only reason  
for using PVC or other materials besides steel for plumbing.
One of the issues that I believe is pertinent is the time issue. PVC  
is simply much faster and easier to install and for certain  
applications has a longer life span ( as in underground waterlines).  
And if the quality is comparable, to me it seams like a sensible  
option, especially if one is experiencing a bit of a time crunch, like  
I am to get my shop together and functional.

We are looking into another option and this is PEX. All the plumbers,  
we know, swear by it and I see that it is being widely used by gas  
companies for plumbing in Propane. We are checking into its  
suitability for pressurized air. Apparently this stuff even stands up  
to freezing, where other pipes fail.

> 	If you are in the business, you acquire the tools you need to  
> operate.
>  This is not an exercise in hand-wringing, but a business decision.   
> If
> you do not have the cash, you finance.  If you cannot justify the
> finance cost, then you don't really need it and you find a  
> subcontractor
> who can do the job.  It is as simple as that.

I agree with this to a point, but, like with everything else it needs  
to be balanced. I look around me and I see so many people that have  
just about lost their life essence in the big webs of bank financing.  
Personally, this is a trap I have experienced and I am not interested  
in walking into the same trap again, for I can see how deadly it can  
be. When I do work with credit I try to keep it to a point where I can  
pay it of relatively quick and I do try to utilize my resource  
effectively, which often does require improvisation. It is amazing to  
me how many people are just about incapable of basic improvisation. I  
mean like: " Oh, I can't fix the door be latch because I do not have  
the factory screws that came with it... sigh" ! LOL I believe that  
improvisation is an essential tool and it, too, should be used in a  
balanced way. After all, there is just no need to reinvent the wheel,  
especially when somebody else has already perfected it, is producing  
it and distributing it for way less than I could.

Ekaterina


On May 26, 2008, at 2:01 AM, theforge-request at mailman.qth.net wrote:

>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 10:25:06 -0400
> From: Andrew Vida <osan at netlabs.net>
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Foundations and shop design
> To: Blacksmithing List Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <483976C2.5090902 at netlabs.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
> paul wrote:
>
>> 4. Why do blacksmiths fear measuring and threading steel pipe? A  
>> small
>> shop would probably be just fine with 3/4" iron pipe mains, and the
>> mechanical strength of iron pipe is more than sufficient for any shop
>> environment. Hand threading 3/4" iron pipe is good exersize. Larger
>> sizes would be better, more storage volume in the main piping...  
>> you can
>> rent a pipe machine for the larger sizes if you have large shop.  
>> You can
>> also use the leftover pieces... they are iron after all.
>
> 	I don't think it is fear, it is... erm... *frugality*.
>
> 	You know how the Jews have the rap in some peoples' minds as being
> horrid little misers?  I don't think anyone can hold a candle to some
> smiths.  Instead of "jewing" someone down during negotiations, I think
> we should call it "smithing" them down.  Seriously, for such a great
> bunch of folks as smiths, I've seen few other groups of people who are
> as penny-wise and pound-foolish.  Getting all cheap about things like
> this makes no sense.  There are proper ways of plumbing for  
> pressurized
> air, and there are all the other ways.
>
> 	If you are in the business, you acquire the tools you need to  
> operate.
>  This is not an exercise in hand-wringing, but a business decision.   
> If
> you do not have the cash, you finance.  If you cannot justify the
> finance cost, then you don't really need it and you find a  
> subcontractor
> who can do the job.  It is as simple as that.
>
> 	If you are a hobbyist, there is still the safety angle.  Shit always
> seems to happen to the other guy... until you are him.  Is, say,  
> losing
> an eye worth the few hundreds of dollars saved by shit-rigging PVC
> instead of installing proper air lines?  And if the line fails and  
> your
> compressor burns up, you've probably put yourself in the hole.
>
> 	It seems to me that in decisions such as these, many people fail to
> think things out clearly.  I am somewhat inflexibly firm in my belief
> that things such as this should be carefully and circumspectly
> considered and then done right.  Call me crazy.
>
>
> 	-Andy V.
>
> no .sig
> go .fig
>