[TheForge] Cone mandrels

Mon Jan 14 20:38:47 EST 2008

Having a large cone mandrel is nice, but I make do for a lot of things with 
short sections of normal pipe.  I have some small cones that take me to 
about 4 inch dia., but for larger sizes I just have some short section of 
pipe from the scrap yard.

I burn or cut a section that is about 2 inch long and weld a angle to the 
"bottom".  This angle can then fit in my vise.  I can now bend around this 
just like it was a cone mandrel plus I can use bending forks like it is a 
scroll jig.

Just another way to skin the cat.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ries" <ries at riesniemi.com>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] ironworkers vs power hammers

> Grant Sarver, of Off Center Forge, CNC's all kinds of cool powerhammer 
> tooling- he spent the 30 or 40 grand on equipment so we dont have to.
> Blacksmith Depot sells it.
> I have made a fair amount myself, though, and it doesnt need to be  that 
> precise- a mill and lathe helps, for sure, but there is a lot of  tooling 
> you could build without em.
> Ralph Sproul, over at forgemagic.com has been posting pics of lots of 
> homemade hammer tooling he builds.
>
> As for making a cone- its a pretty straightforward lathe job- but the 
> amount of metal you would scrap turning one is a lot, at .80 a pound.
> I dont quite see the urgent need for a cone, myself- I make do fine  with 
> the horns on my two anvils, and then I supplement that with the  hossfeld, 
> which will bend circles and arcs much faster and easier,  cold..
>
> Ries
>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Ben Barrett wrote:
>
> That's awesome, Ries -- sounds like 59HP peak.  I enjoyed your posting
> from last March in the necessity of power hammers thread too.  I'm
> just excited to finally have the shop space, and not sure what I want
> it to become in the end... I know, it is a terrible idea to lack a
> full plan.  I'm trying to get the most versatility in metalworking out
> of each small step, and I'm focused around blacksmithing although a
> bunch of other processes (and even some other mediums) are involved.
> I know Tesla brought us AC, but I only recently heard that Edison was
> apparently his nemesis.  I agree about strikers, and the ability to
> make custom tooling and dies for both small power hammers and
> hydraulic presses means the one-person shop is more capable than ever.
> There are many dies I would want CNC'ed though, I think, for the
> precision leading to my own safety... is that reasonable?
>
> On a similar note, if I have access to a sufficient lathe, is there
> anything particular to smithing that I should do or be aware of, in
> lathing down mandrel cones?  I'll be getting some guidance on the
> lathe, but they're not blacksmiths.
>
> ben
>
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008 1:16 PM, Ries wrote:
>> These are  two totally different tools, with different uses.
>> For forging, a powerhammer would be my first purchase.
>> As you get older, and your arms wear out, you really appreciate ol
>> Thomas Edison doing the heavy work for you.
>> And with a power hammer, you can build all kinds of tooling that
>> enables you to do a lot of stuff thats difficult, if not impossible,
>> by hand. In the old days, there were always strikers around- usually
>> two or three, and a big shop might have a dozen- guys who were human
>> power hammers. The one man shop was mostly a myth.
>> So a power hammer is, in that sense, traditional.
>> And they have been in common use since the mid 1800's or so.
>>
>> An ironworker is a fab tool. Its great for doing precise shearing and
>> punching, cold. And especially when you are doing large jobs, with
>> lots of repetition. I use mine probably 75% for punching holes, and I
>> think thats common. If you need 2 dozen 3/4" holes punched in 1/2"
>> plate, an ironworker can knock it out in a half hour, including setup
>> time. And for shearing stuff to length- a 100 pieces all the same
>> length, it cant be beat. But unless you have the volume of work to pay
>> for it, an ironworker is a pretty expensive convenience.
>>
>> Whereas a hammer is more of a necessity, in my book.
>>
>> As for 3 phase, if you get at all serious about tools, you are gonna
>> need 3 phase in your shop. You will want a rotary, rather than static,
>> converter, and you will need it sized bigger than you think, as 3
>> phase tools have a way of wandering in once you have the juice. A
>> small power hammer, like a 25lb little giant, can easily be run on
>> single phase- but once you get up towards 3hp to 5hp, 3 phase motors
>> are cheaper, easier to find, and more efficient.
>>
>> Ries
>>
>> (who has 400 amps of 3 phase from the utility in his shop)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 14, 2008, at 10:22 AM, Ben Barrett wrote:
>>
>> Howdy folks, I'd like to prompt a discussion on how ironworkers fit in
>> with power hammers in the medium-sized smithy, and the pro's and con's
>> of acquiring one before the other.  I currently have room to expand
>> into both, and nearing budget for one or the other.  One current [heh]
>> limitation is 1-phase power, although I understand either could be
>> modified to a 1-phase motor/source or driven with a phase converter.
>> I'm looking at the range of processes that I could accomplish, and
>> would be hoping to get into a 50-150# hammer or a 35-50 ton
>> ironworker.  Eventually both, if things pan out.  Please advise!
>>
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