[TheForge] Re: The ABANA Trust

David E. Smucker davesmucker at hotmail.com
Sun Oct 28 14:35:32 EST 2007 

I tend to agree with Grant and Charles both from another post.

>Without the official numbers being published it is hard say what the facts 
>are, but saying it met expectations is silly, unless >you specify whose 
>expectations.   As far as the lawyer thing, who cares.   It is silly and 
>stupid to bash someone for being a >lawyer.  If you want to bash them for 
>being a bully and an asshole, have at.

>Charles

I for one would NOT and didn't attend the Seattle Conference because it was 
the "Kagele" conference.  I could afford both the conference cost and the 
travel costs.  I had the "Newsletter Editor of the Year Award" to pass on 
but I was not going to attend any conference that had anything to do with 
Mr. Kagele.  Anyone who had been around ABANA for some period of time will 
most likely understand where I am coming from.  ABANA got me started in 
blacksmithing and I continue to be a member and continue to support the long 
term goals of ABANA.  That does not mean I support all of the past board 
members or some of their behavior in and out of blacksmithing.

Dave Smucker
Former editor, AACB Newsletter
Brasstown, NC

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grant Marcoux" <gblacksmith at alamedanet.net>
To: "Sponsored by ABANA" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Re: The ABANA Trust


>I can't disagree....the bottom line is that elected board members of 501c3
> corporations have a duty that is first and foremost, fiduciary.  There is 
> a
> positive duty of each and every elected board member to practice sound
> financial governance based on business principles.
>
> Providing "world class events" in the form of conferences is a collateral
> duty, provided a business case can be made for it.
>
> The financial difficulties associated with the Seattle conference are not 
> a
> problem....they are a SYMPTOM of a problem.  In this case the real problem
> was perhaps one of failure of the oversight of the ENTIRE ABANA board to
> govern the conference organization process according to sound business
> practice.
>
> I have the utmost respect for anyone who is willing to be a volunteer on a
> 501c3 board; it is a HELL of a lot of work and very demanding when 
> correctly
> performed.  Correct performance of the duties of a board member once again
> centers on due diligence regarding finances.
>
>  Ultimately, ABANA will survive only if there are enough folks on the 
> board
> who employ sound management AND leadership principles.  Let's get back to
> the basics...solid money management, transparency and accountability to 
> the
> membership.
>
> I for one, am sticking with ABANA in the hope that wiser heads will
> ultimately prevail. I'm dancing with the one I came to the ball with.
>
> Grant
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of xlch58 at swbell.net
> Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:24 AM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Re: The ABANA Trust
>
>
> This is from a note posted by the president of ABANA after the conference:
>
> "For many years ABANA has supplemented its budget by living off the profit
> from previous Conferences. We can no longer do that.
> The Seattle Conference was not the financial success of previous
> Conferences. It probably lost money. We still do not know the final tally,
> because there is an outstanding invoice from the University of Washington.
> When we do know the accounting figures, they will be posted on the ABANA
> website."
>
> As far as I know, ABANA has yet to post the actual results.   It seems 
> clear
> to many of us that have been involved with ABANA for some time that the
> conferences have provided supplemental income that was an important
> component of ABANA's budget.  No one has claimed that the conferences have
> provided "exclusive funding for ABANA in off-conference years"  This is a
> silly argument, since ABANA has always collected dues, and charged for 
> plans
> and whatnot- I doubt anyone really believed ABANA was exclusively funded 
> by
> conferences in on or off years.  This bit of sophistry is misleading. 
> Yes,
> the goal is to not lose money.  That is also the goal of every working
> smith, but they don't do it by heading out to the shop every day intent on
> not losing money, , they know they can accomplish that by making money.
> The consensus is that Seattle did not provide the ROI of past conferences.
> High risk or otherwise, it did not face any untoward challenge not faced 
> by
> every other conference i.e. no weather or terrorist attacks. In fact, if 
> any
> conference wants to claim harm in that respect, it would be Richmond.  The
> only issue that I have heard it faced was bad decisions.  I say that 
> without
> acrimony, just the facts at a macro level.  In the absence of any outside
> influence having a detrimental effect on the conference, it leaves the
> planning and execution as the issue.  Decisions were made that did not
> result in the expectations of the general ABANA membership being met. 
> The
> results may or may not have met the expectations of the planning group, or
> the ABANA board, but they did not meet the expectations of the general
> population, as we all expected the same sort of profit as previous years 
> and
> we expected another conference in 2008.   Without the official numbers 
> being
> published it is hard say what the facts are, but saying it met 
> expectations
> is silly, unless you specify whose expectations.   As far as the lawyer
> thing, who cares.   It is silly and stupid to bash someone for being a
> lawyer.  If you want to bash them for being a bully and an asshole, have 
> at.
>
> Charles
>
>
> williamsiron at comcast.net wrote:
>> Something to keep in perspective, the writer of this message, Jerry
> Kagele, was the chair of the ABANA conference in Seattle that did not 
> bring
> in the kind of money that most thought it should. We don't know the exact
> numbers because the financial report has not been posted on the ABANA web
> site. I'd say to keep an open mind on this writer. Oh, yes, Mr. Kagele is 
> a
> lawyer.
>>
>> Mark
>> Snow Hill, Maryland
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: Kagele at aol.com
>>
>>
>>> ABANA conferences have always depended upon conference revenues for a
>>> portion of the
>>> operating budget as well as seed money for new conferences. It has been 
>>> a
>>> given that inland
>>> conferences generate more money, because of ABANA membership
> concentrations,
>>> than West
>>> Coast conferences. It is also a pattern that off-conference years
> generate
>>> less revenue. The
>>> reason that ABANA did not proceed with a conference in 2008 is due to a
>>> number of factors in
>>> addition to economics i.e. lack of a time-dedicated conference chair,
> high
>>> site costs, etc.
>>> However, the specific financial problem that ABANA has was present 
>>> before
>>> the Seattle
>>> Conference. A conference is a high-risk venture financially. Bad 
>>> weather,
>>> gas prices, terrorist
>>> attack, you name it, could cause a cancellation. The primary goal
>>> financially is to balance the
>>> conference budget. The second goal is to provide a conference fee that 
>>> is
>>> within the financial
>>> means of most members. If the conference can do that and still generate 
>>> a
>>> profit for ABANA, so
>>> much the better. However, no conference has ever been intended to 
>>> provide
>>> the primary and
>>> exclusive funding for ABANA in off-conference years. Like any business,
>>> ABANA has always
>>> relied on itâ?Ts accumulated earnings, from itâ?Ts conferences, dues,
> sales,
>>> etc. to stabilize itâ?Ts
>>> finances from one year to the next. In non-conference years membership
> dues
>>> income dips. In
>>> conference years dues income and conference revenues have always added 
>>> to
>>> ABANAâ?Ts
>>> accumulated earnings. Without the cushion of accumulated earnings, 
>>> ABANA,
>>> like any
>>> business, will have a cash-flow crunch in the lean years. That is
> precisely
>>> where ABANA
>>> finances are today. The reason? Several years ago ABANA had more than
>>> $150,000 in
>>> accumulated earnings. All of this money was locked up in the ABANA 
>>> Trust.
>>> It remains there
>>> today. It is essentially dead money. Other than providing a few thousand
>>> dollars in scholarships,
>>> it has no further utility to ABANA. Given itâ?Ts paltry rate of return,
>>> inflationary decrease,
>>> administration fees, and decline in dollar value, it is actually losing
>>> significant principal each
>>> year. Most importantly, it totally eliminated ABANAâ?Ts effective cash
>>> reserves which had always
>>> been available in non-conference years and which traditionally provided 
>>> a
>>> cushion for operations
>>> and conference planning. Without access to itâ?Ts accumulated earnings,
>>> ABANA, like any
>>> business, has to start from scratch to rebuild operating capital. Having
>>> done estate planning for
>>> some 35 years, I am not unfamilar with trust economics. At the time of
> the
>>> Boardâ?Ts decision,
>>> Tim Ryan and I warned ABANA of the long-term consequences of burying all
> of
>>> itâ?Ts operating
>>> funds in the backyard. Tim said, â?oYou might need those for a rainy
> day!â??
>>> It was inevitable,
>>> given the past pattern of ABANA finances, that the decision would
> eventually
>>> catch up to the
>>> organization. The ABANA Trust has destroyed ABANAâ?Ts liquidity. While
>>> providing some
>>> meager scholarships for the few, it has destroyed itâ?Ts ability to
>>> effectively carry out its
>>> educational mission for the many. The problem is not that ABANA has not
> been
>>> financially
>>> successful. The problem is that it decided to permanently deprive itself
> of
>>> itâ?Ts life blood!
>>>
>>>
>>>
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