[TheForge] ABANA Dilema

Tue Oct 23 15:20:52 EDT 2007

Walter, I didn't take your post personally, I was
asking about how you thought ABANA represented our
interests.  The part about contributing was just a
general comment, cause some of the posts on this
subject were in the vain of "you only get something
back if you give something" and I just wanted to clear
the air on that.

Phil
--- wmullett at bright.net wrote:

> Phil,
> 
> Sorry if you took my post personally, I certainly
> didn't mean to attack any one specifically.  I was
> responding to Ries and and I regret that your name
> was not edited from my post. 
> 
> ABANA represents our interests in many ways a few of
> which are:
> 
> First, it is a recognizable group on the national
> level and I am sure they have often been the first
> point of contact for anyone seeking information
> about blacksmithing.
> 
> Second and probably most important, they have
> provided all of us a forum by which we share
> knowledge and resources.  Their publications and
> this site are examples of that.
> 
> In addition, ABANA has helped all of us by raising a
> national awareness of our craft.
> 
> ABANA also is becoming our national librarian of
> published information.
> 
> And finally, ABANA raises the level of all of our
> work by showing us what others are doing through
> their publications and conventions.
> 
> I'm glad you too have been a contributor to ABANA
> and I hope you continue.  There is nothing wrong
> with trying to make ABANA better.  Valid criticism
> is healthy and necessary but I have found that those
> who contribute the least are usually the loudest. 
> ---------  
>  
> From: Phil <mobjak at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue Oct 23, 1:58 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: [TheForge] ABANA Dilema
> 
> Walter:
> 
> As I said earlier, I've only been an ABANA member
> for
> 26 years, and I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed,
> but you said:
> 
> "As a national organization, representing the
> interests of professionals and amateurs
> equally,...". 
> How does ABANA represent our interests?
> 
> Before anyone berates me for not contributing to
> ABANA, I think I've written three articles for the
> Anvil's Ring, and 4-5 articles for the Hammer's
> Blow,
> and I donated four hand forged pairs of tongs for
> Brian Gilbert to give to folks that submitted
> articles
> to the Hammer's Blow.
> 
> Phil
> --- wmullett at bright.net wrote:
> 
> > Good post Ries.  I'm always amazed at how "cheap"
> we
> > blacksmiths are.  Maybe it's because we are always
> > looking at how we can make something out of scrap.
> > 
> > ABANA provides a whole lot more for us than
> > publications.  But if you ONLY look at the
> > publication value, these publications are at least
> > equal to an over the counter cost.
> > 
> > It is foolish, though, to be equating the value of
> > ABANA with the publications.  As a national
> > organization, representing the interests of
> > professionals and amateurs equally, ABANA is a
> > bargain and maybe part of its problem is that its
> > dues are too low.  My national architectural
> > membership (AIA) costs me several hundred dollars
> a
> > year and I only get 12 issues of its publication.
> > Its value also is not in the publications and
> that's
> > why I'm a member.   
> > 
> > Sure, ABANA has problems but it's a voluntary
> > organization and if you want more out of it, you
> > need to participate more.
> > 
> > Interesting ... we have people who complain about
> > our $20 WRABA membership who say "the publications
> > not worth the dues".  They still seem to find a
> way
> > to show up to our open hammer-ins though. These
> > people never contribute. 
> > 
> > --------
> > From: ries <ries at riesniemi.com>
> > Date: Mon Oct 22, 3:41 PM
> > To: Sponsored by ABANA <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] ABANA Dilema
> > 
> > If you go to the Abana website, you can look at
> the
> > financial  
> > statements.
> > The last one I found says it costs around $210,000
> > to publish the two  
> > magazines.
> > Then, they spend another $100,000 or so a year on
> > scholarships,  
> > insurance, office expenses, and paying the one
> full
> > time employee.
> > So at the end of the day, there is not some huge
> > slush fund to waste  
> > on girls, parties, and trips to the casino.
> > Plus, due to whatever reasons (this is a giant
> > subject for heated  
> > discussion all on its own)
> > the last conference in Seattle lost money.
> > The University of Washington claims we still owe
> em
> > something like  
> > $60,000.
> > 
> > The all volunteer board does the best they can-
> and
> > we can all tell  
> > em how to do it differently, I am sure.
> > But there aint no padding of expenses or swindling
> > going on here- it  
> > costs money to be real today, to be legal, to file
> > tax returns, to  
> > host conferences and publish two magazines.
> > 
> > Each of us is certainly free to decide that we
> dont
> > want to support  
> > abana, or that we arent getting enough back for
> our
> > dues.
> > 
> > Me, I send in my money strictly because I believe
> in
> > the  
> > organisation- the two magazines are strictly a
> > bonus, if you ask me.
> > I spend more on one halfway decent (not gourmet)
> > meal for my family  
> > of four at a restaurant.
> > 
> > Toby Hickman put it quite nicely,  I, thought,
> over
> > on the Poaba  
> > discussion board-
> > ""I don”t know about any one else but all I want
> > from my  
> > blacksmithing orginization is a good rag and a
> place
> > to drink beer  
> > and talk to other blacksmiths.""
> > 
> >
>
http://poaba.wordpress.com/2007/08/23/intro-to-poabas-blog-site/
> > 
> > Me, I am in total agreement with him, and $55
> seems
> > like a mighty  
> > small price to pay for that.
> > 
> > Nomma, for example, costs a minimum of $300 a
> year-
> > $415 for a  
> > fabricator- and their parties are nowhere near as
> > good as an Abana  
> > conference.
> > 
> > ries
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:54 AM, Phil wrote:
> > 
> > I've been a member of ABANA since 1981.  I got my
> > ABANA membership renewal in the mail the other
> day,
> > $55 for the coming year.  I like reading the
> > Hammer's
> > Blow.  The Anvil's ring has gotten a bit too artsy
> > for
> > my taste, and it's hard to find the articles cause
> > of
> > all the advertisements.  But anyway, I was
> weighing
> > whether I wanted to renew or not.  I was thinking
> > $55
> > a year is a lot for two quarterly publications. 
> > Then
> > it occurred to me that ABANA doesn't do
> conferences
> > anymore.  The ABANA web-site is basically
> unchanged
> > for the last few years.  Then I started thinking
> > about
> > the numbers, 5000 people spending $55 a year,
> that's
> > $275,000.  Wow, that's a lot to publish two
> > quarterly
> > journals.  Then a friend of mine pointed out to me
> > that the Anvil's Ring has ad revenue as well. 
> Where
> > does all that money go anyway?
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ries Niemi
> > Industrial Artist
> > http://www.riesniemi.com/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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