[TheForge] Mineral Wool

[Kathy]

Peter,
When you tried using the IR reflective coating in a kiln without noticeable
results, you were demonstrating one of the problems of trying to get anything
more than anecdotal evidence; that "circumstance alters cases" as the saying
goes. I would conclude that there were other factors (not necessarily problems),
which negated the heat gain. On the other hand, the value of anecdotal evidence
in a group like this is also demonstrated:
(1) Peter uses a product that is reported to work quite well without noticeable
result, probably wondering if he did everything right and suspecting that there
are other factors at work, which he doesn't know if he can sort out.
(2) Another member looks at his post and begins wondering what the other factors
actually are, because this person happens to be thoroughly familiar with the
pluses and negatives of ITC #100
(3) Other members are also considering the puzzle; now comes the race to post
the first good theory or question.

Let's consider the likelihood that the IR reflective coating is working just the
way it is supposed to. What would change--results wise--by its being painted on
the very much larger interior of a kiln would be the effects. Due to much larger
square of the distance dissipation losses, why would the cone droop faster? Even
if the cone is placed close to a wall, how much effect is going to be gained
from radiation gain on its tiny surface area? So, we might ask "if the cone
isn't being heated any more than it was before, what gain is there from the
reflective coating?" Probably no heat gain is going to be experienced within an
ELECTRIC kiln, but the utility bill should go down over time.

We need to remember that how much of a temperature 'kick' is received from the
coating is going to be a function of how much heat is being created within the
equipment's interior in the first place. Figure on, say, 1400 degrees at the
electrical fixture, which is quickly being dissipated into the surroundings;
compare this to over 3000 degree flame temperatures, with many times the heating
rate of electrical fixtures (as the same pressure increase that enlarges burner
flames also increases the exchange rate of a forge's gas contents), and it is
likely that any chart made up to compare differences would put the slingshot in
Goliath's hand (electricity being David). Electricity is clean and efficient in
kilns, but certainly not dynamic.

I have scrounged an electrical kiln and will be coating it with water separated
#200 mesh zirconium (with a touch of clay binger). This will be done, not to
increase internal temperatures, but to protect the refractory face from the acid
gases produced during glass slumping/annealing projects. Kiln wash could also be
used, but it won't reduce my electrical bills any.
Mikey

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of Peter Fels And Phoebe Palmer
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:03 AM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Mineral Wool

I thought so too Jerry, so i painted the inside of my wife's old 
electric pottery kiln with it and it still takes about the same 
amount of time to sag those cones....dunno...pf

Jerry Frost wrote:
> This topic has been coming up for as long as I've been on the list and 
> for the reasons you give it's virtually imossible to make a meaningful 
> determination.
> 
> There is however one meaningful test a person can do and that's measure 
> their forge before and after applying an IR reflective coating. 
> Unfortunately that's only going to tell you what happened in one 
> furnace. Maybe if enough people did it and recorded the results in a 
> central file we could develop a range of expectations.
> 
> Till then we have only the manufacturers data and anecdotal evidence. 
> The anecdotal is impressive enough to make using an IR reflector 
> regardless of furnace liner type a no brainer though.
> 
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
> 
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> 
> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
> 
> 
> From: "Kathy" <keporter at comcast.net>
> 
> 
>> Jerry,
>> The problem does not come in measuring internal temperatures, but in 
>> comparing
>> apples and oranges. The temperature in one forge, no matter how 
>> scientifically
>> gathered, simply won't apply in the next man's forge.
>>
>> For about six months I answered one challenge after another from 
>> people who
>> insisted they had built my burner designs "exactly according to 
>> directions" and
>> "completely by the book." It was quite an education. Finally, I told 
>> the last
>> naysayer that I would fix his burner for free, just like all the 
>> others--but I
>> would also post what I found out about it on Castinghobby (the Yahoo 
>> newsgroup
>> where I was being constantly challenged after Gas Burners was 
>> published). He
>> decided that he didn't want anything to do with the "freebee" on those 
>> terms,
>> and the river of people who kept insisting they had built their 
>> burners "exactly
>> according to specifications" suddenly dried up.
>>
>> Burners are only one part of the heating system we call forges. Point 
>> taken?
>> Mikey
>>
> 
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