[TheForge] RE: Permalac

[James Binnion]

  They are typically either phosphoric acid or tannic acid.  
Converting the rust to iron phosphate or iron tannate. Wetting agents  
(for greater penetration into the rust) and solvents (to dissolve oil  
and grease) are the other active ingredients.

Some of them also include a polymer to encapsulate the converted rust  
and coat the base metal leaveing a primer like coating that can be  
painted directly over with compatible coatings.


Jim

On May 18, 2007, at 7:11 AM, Steven Smith wrote:

> I'd like to better understand what the rust converters are doing. I  
> used some once, maybe 10 years ago, on a car I was repairing  
> (forlorn hope). Phosphoric acid will change red rust into black,  
> but this is just one oxide form to the other. The converter changed  
> red rust to a black, shiny stuff. There is more going on with the  
> converter (at least what I used) than simple oxide conversion.
>
> Anyone have a clue about this?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Woolley wrote:
>> Grant,
>>
>> "One Step" is a brand name?
>>
>> Bill Woolley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Grant Marcoux wrote:
>>> I think the reaction is Ferric oxide (red?) to Ferric nitrate  
>>> (black?)
>>> Anyway, the stuff works....paint on one coat, allow to work for  
>>> 20 minutes.
>>> Add another coat and allow to work for 24 hrs.  A rich, deep  
>>> black is
>>> produced, with no ash.  You can Permalac over this surface  
>>> nicely.   Grant
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Mike Spencer
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:57 AM
>>> To: theforge at mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: [TheForge] RE: Permalac
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Permalac may be applied over "1-step" rust converter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Okaayyyy, so what exactly do these "rust converter" products do?
>>>
>>> Given how many $$ and hours the metal and paint industries put into
>>> coping  with rust, they sound like snake oil to me.  I have an  
>>> aerosol
>>> can of one brand that I've dicked around with a bit without learning
>>> much. Yes, the red stuff turns black.   And?
>>>
>>> So what's the chemistry?  Fe+++ -> Fe++?  What happens at the  
>>> surface
>>> the base metal underneath?  To the water of hydration in the red  
>>> rust?
>>> What what?
>>>
>>>
>>> - Mike
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Michael Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada       .~.
>>>                                                            /V\
>>> mspencer at tallships.ca                                     /( )\
>>> http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/                        ^^-^^
>>>
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>
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James Binnion
jbin at well.com