[TheForge] OT weather v. climate

[Kathy]

Bob,

I would have to look up the site again (and that could be time consuming), but
one of the things the Brits discovered was the Atlantic version of El Nino
running in approx. ten year cycles.

 

The sites you mention below only strengthen my own point about the "experts"
being way too partisan for me to accept their findings as scientific; remember,
I'm not part of the denial camp. Personally, I think the concept of global
warming sounds pretty legitimate; more legitimate than what the other side has
to say at least. However, I do NOT consider their findings as unbiased. I think
most people are perfectly well aware that the global warming crowd are well
beyond biased; frenzied would not be an unfair description. Therefore, the
louder they shout, the more they will lose credibility with the majority. I
believe my own view is typical of that majority; we no longer trust the
messenger. I don't think we ever trusted the agenda.

 

It is admittedly a low blow that the media, who did so much to popularize global
warming as an issue, have moved on to sexier topics like planet killing
asteroids, and with them has gone much political clout, but that's the downside
of doing business with Chicken Little; the tide came in, the tide went out, and
in it's wake common people like myself are far more environmentally aware. This
is a good thing as counterbalance to the rape-the-planet politics of the
fifties. I am also glad that this particular political football has lost a lot
of air, as I've never been fond of big brother in any of his various guises. If
global warming ever reaches the status of orphan issue, I would even support
your camp; just not as a rampaging on-jolly green giant. 

Mikey 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of schade at acegroup.cc
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 2:07 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] OT weather v. climate

 

On Mar 3, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Kathy wrote:

 

> To Bob,

> 

> Far be it from me to ask embarrassing questions, but doesn't the 

> record keeping

> of the British over the last three centuries prove very nicely that 

> your "thirty

> years" comment, when taken in perspective, was closer to weather than 

> climate?

 

Mike,

 

I'm not embarrassed. Why would I be?

 

It would seem to me that the longer the sample of past weather the 

better the ability to predict future climate would be. What does the 

300 years of British records indicate? You didn't say.

 

> Than of course, we can't forget the inconveniently historic example of 

> the

> centuries long cold snap called the middle ages.

________________________________

 

This is what the site cited earlier has to say about that,

 

Bob

_______________________________

 

The Medieval Warm Period was just as warm as today

(Part of the How to Talk to a Climate Sceptic guide)

 

Objection:

It was just as warm in the Medieval Warm Period as today, in fact 

Greenland was green and they were growing grapes in England.

 

This one often comes with additional anecdotal evidence, but it is not 

often useful to get into those details, just refer to the wealth of 

proxy studies that refute this idea.

 

Answer:

There is actually no good evidence that the MWP was indeed a globally 

warm period comparable to today. Regionally, there may have been places 

that did exhibit notable warmth but all of the various global proxy 

reconstructions agree that it is warmer now and the temperature is 

rising faster than at any time in the last one or even two thousand 

years. Anecdotal evidence like that above can never tell you a global 

story.

 

NOAA presents a whole selection of proxy studies together with the data 

they are based on and these can be found here: 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/paleo.html

 

Specifically, they have this to say about the MWP:

 

"The idea of a global or hemispheric "Medieval Warm Period" that was 

warmer than today however, has turned out to be incorrect."

 

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/medieval.html

 

In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like 

to point people here:

 

http://www.english-wine.com/index.html

____________________________________________

 

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