[TheForge] oxy-propylene, propane tips and air-arc

Sun Jun 24 01:32:11 EDT 2007

Hey Ben:
Carl Jennings, may he rest in peace, Had a torch he made from an 
old 50s style metal blow dryer , some pipe and a propane jet and 
needle valve. He had it rigged so that it'd mount on an 
adjustable stand or could be hand held. It wasn't fast as a 
rosebud, but it was cheap to build and run. He'd set it on the 
stand, focused on the spot next to the one he was working on so 
when the part he was hammering cooled he could just move the hot 
spot over to his stake.
Yes, using, say firebricks, to make a backing , corner or box to 
heat in,is much more efficient and quicker.
Helmut Hillenkamp made a dome shaped shell lined with kaowool 
that had a simple burner sticking out the top. He could use it 
conventionally on a firebrick table or pick it up and plunk it 
over larger work....pete

Ben Barrett wrote:
> Thanks Mikey -- I'm just not convinved from what I read here that propylene
> will make things any easier for me.  The idea with propane and compressed
> air is based on the amount of BTU's I observe being cranked out of 
> either of
> the venturi forge burners I have now, as well as my buddy's forced-air 
> propane
> forge... I am also consider just making a mini-forge, since that could
> cover many
> of type situations where I want a more focused heat (more cheaply).
> Definately not made of money here, but prolly better-off than many folks...
> I've almost wiped out my tool budget now, and the biggest items I've come
> to acquire are the anvil ($200) and oxy/acet setup ($300), and I can't 
> afford
> any bigger-ticket items until I get some nice commissions :)
> 
> I figure a $500+ job would enable me to upgrade my torch setup
> in some way, so I'm trying to figure out if I should save up for the 
> All-States
> or some other propane-specific torch... I need a bigger oxy tank if I'm 
> going
> to use any substantial oxy, so that is an additional cost for me.
> I'm more inclined to rig up some kind of [mostly-] fixed burner, with
> an insulative
> baffle maybe, to do point heating with.  I still need all the
> experience I can get
> with the oxy/acet, I learn a lot each time, but it is not worth
> burning up unless
> I'm progressing on some project, it seems.
> 
> BTW, can you expound on any reasons *against* using non-enriched compressed
> air with propane?  Again, no cutting needed/expected for that setup.
> Does it just
> not get rich enough of a mixture, before it blows out the flame?
> Then, what about
> using something like the classic hair-dryer blower with a small
> home-made burner,
> maybe on some sort of swing-arm frame (since I'd prolly over-build it
> too much to
> be handheld :)  -- sound feasible?
> 
> One thing I'm still trying to understand, is how I might creatively
> deal with all the wasted
> heat, from both forge and torch.  Would working a torch within say a
> 3-sides insulative barrier
> help, or would that just be too unbearable, kicking back all the heat?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions.  TheForge is so helpful, thanks everyone!
> 
> ben
> 
> 
> On 6/22/07, Kathy <keporter at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Ben,
>> I'd make that propylene and compressed air if you're going to delete 
>> oxygen use,
>> or  try oxygen enrichment of the compressed air. You can get venturi 
>> mixers for
>> enrichment from Carlisle Machine Works (you might just want to check 
>> out the
>> Unicon Hand Torch while visiting their site, unless you're made of 
>> money that is
>> :)
>> Mikey
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
>> On Behalf Of Ben Barrett
>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:32 AM
>> To: Sponsored by ABANA
>> Subject: Re: [TheForge] oxy-propylene, propane tips and air-arc
>>
>> So, propane has gotten a little more expensive since that
>> All-S...whatever FAQ price comparison was written up, but clearly it
>> could still be a big gain.  Right now I only have a couple small Oxy
>> tanks, so I wouldn't want to over-use that.  For basic spot-heating,
>> like fine-tuning twists and bends, can propane and compressed air be
>> used?  That sounds like the right price!!
>> I have a spare compressor tank (no motor or compressor) that I was
>> thinking of setting up just for that purpose... I don't care if I use
>> up a lot of compressed air, it is cheap :)
>>
>> So, if no cutting is done, does compressed air work well enough with
>> propane through an oxy/acet torch?  Should I still use tips made for
>> propane?
>> If this works, it would be an incredible boon, using mostly what I
>> already have, which we can all appreciate.  Seems unreal.
>>
>> ben
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/22/07, Ron Childers <munlaw2 at hcsmail.com> wrote:
>> > A #2 Propane tip works pretty well on my big ol Smith torch that was 
>> made
>> > for oxy-ace. It cost about 12-15 $$ and cuts rr rail ok. Once the 
>> metal is
>> > hot it's the oxygen that does the cutting. The Allsnakes torch may 
>> be better
>> > but I would have to be convinced to spend the extra $635 when my 
>> torches
>> > work pretty well..
>> >
>> > I've had no problem switching from acetylene to propane and back 
>> again- not
>> > enough mixing of gasses to matter by the time the regulator is 
>> swapped and
>> > the torch is lit anyway.
>> >
>> > If you want to get nasty, quick & dirty, use an air-arc torch. Truly a
>> > matter of function over esthetics. It isn't pretty but does the job.
>> >
>> > Ron C
>> >
>> >
> ...
> _______________________________________________
> Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
> theforge mail list group photo site is
> http://www.photoaccess.com
> Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
> password:  anvil
> ___________
> 
> 
> 