Try these http://www.magichammer.freeservers.com/creating__rust.htm http://www.magichammer.freeservers.com/removing___rust.htm http://www.magichammer.freeservers.com/metal_finishes.htm dave mudge On 7/13/07, Wayne Ackman <stryker at vulcanproductions.us> wrote: > thanks to everyone with suggestions. I appreciate the help. >