[TheForge] "Official" news from ABANA N+1

[Dave Mudge]

Grover this is getting long and I am one person trying to reply to 50
or 60 e-mails.
So, I'll be a little short. No offence intended, OK?

On 2/20/07, Grover Richardson <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:

>
> All very good suggestions Grover.
>
> On 2/19/07, Grover Richardson <grover.richardson at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:
> > A renegade solution.
> >
> > Look at what a good price to charge people to attend will be (based upon
> > regional sized conferences).

****** We are a National / International group We can not put on a
world class conference for $35 / head.
>
> ..........The 2008 Conference Committee was charged with trying to put
> together a conference (abana style) based on 650 full paid attendees
> where the full package would cost under $600 per full paid attendee.
> We were not able to do that given the parameter's with which we had to
> work. Meaning at the school at New Paltz, within a given time limit.
>
> Understand working with previous conditions and restrictions, as set.  The
> direction of my comments were that NOW knowing what doesn't work, and now
> knowing what we can now NOT afford to do, and now knowing that the existing
> conditions are somewhat unwieldy (being polite), it's time to reset the
> operating conditions, without raping the pensions of the pilots<G>.

******We had only one shot at a 2008 conference and after months of
hard work we couldn't make it happen.
>
> > Subtract the known costs (insurance, communications, etc.)
>
> ..........Finding the "known costs" was an extremely difficult job.
> Try to find industrial rental equipment in an up-scale residential
> neighborhood.
>
> Understand.
>
> A.      Go to a non-up scale neighborhood.

*****We didn't choose the neighborhood, NBA did.

> B.      All residential neighborhoods have nearby industrial neighborhoods
> where the sleepy heads work<G>.  Me included.

*****not this one.

> C.      Rental companies will fax rental prices to anyone who asks.  And
> tell the person how long the quotes are good for.  Last year I spent right
> at 150k of the company's money.  Quotes are easy<G>.

***** We had April (abana conference coordinator) working 10 hour days
5 days a week on just that. Chasing quotes, alternative locations,
services and equipment. She worked her fingers to the bone.
>
> Still, gross estimates may be made based upon previous payments for
> services/materials.  Then fine tune with real informaion from the locals.
> Establish, at minimum, working limits beyond which permission would be
> obtained to exceed.

****** Of course, we did that.

> I believe that a person should be assigned a job, given
> the tools to do it, and then be watched lightly.

****** In two other cases the person that had the job and was "watched
lightly" brought ABANA to it's knees (financially) we can not ever,
ever, allow that to happen again.

 If a good class of worker
> is employed, a long cable with plenty of slack may be enjoyed once skills in
> duties have been proven.  The bottom line is to find out what may be known
> and then worry about what is left<G>.

***** There is no extra, left over money. There is generally only seed
money and the rest is paid for by the registrations.

>
> > Then do the best that may be done with the rest of the money.  But let
> > people know up front what amenities will be available so that they won't >
> be surprised.
>
> .......... Every aspect of an ABANA Conference is well advertised,
> well in advance. There should be no surprises for anyone.
>
> Understand.  In this matter, I was not slinging stones at any previous ABANA
> conference.  I was speaking in general terms of future events which may have
> limited funds and volunteers.  This was not a stone flung at you and yours.
> The point I was attempting to make was that if a certain level of conference
> and amenities have been proffered in the past, then there is a general
> expectation within the public for them to be available at the next event;
> unless they are told otherwise.
>
> > It's called a budget.
>
> ..........Come on, we have more budget details than you can imagine.
>
> Ask any one in the poor house:
> A.      Having a budget is not the same thing as sticking to it.
> B.      If the budget expenditures exceed the intake, it's not a budget.
>
>         Now, truthfully, it is now known that not as many people attended as
> were expected.  This is unfortunate for all.  However, this is apparently
> not the first time that this has occurred.  Hopes are what starving artists
> live on. They must only worry about their room and board, and can go begging
> without having a large adverse effect upon the greater masses.
>         Responsible persons in positions of power must watch out for the
> axeman if things go awry.  For their decisions affect their lives, and the
> lives of all workers under their care.  We all take "risks," and every now
> and then a risk fails.  I suspect that we both watch behind ourselves every
> day<G>.  When I do something that doesn't work, either I get burned, or the
> cat slaps me and lets me know that if I do that again I will receive a claw.
> It's cause and effect.  We learn and hopefully change before we go broke<G>.
> You need more kitty litter Puck?  Sorry boy, we only have real dirt from out
> side.  NO NO NO, not on the stereo!!  If I don't make a correction to my
> inelegant choices, someone with more power (or possibly cohones) will put me
> in my place<G>.
>
> > Only the government can spend more than the budget and continue to
> operate.
> >
> > This isn't a $500.00 a plate charity dinner where the big whigs go and sip
> > wine.  This is a place where blacksmiths go to learn how to earn a better
> > living and to show off what they have already accomplished.
>
> ..........You must be talking about Seattle. I didn't have anything to
> do with that.
>
> Ha.  Well, I was speaking in general and not flinging stones at any
> particular conference.  That's the problem with emails, a lot of body
> language is lost, and things are taken out of context sometimes.  I meant no
> offence with that (nor any portion of this email).
>         Just, when I can buy a working car or motorcycle (though admittedly
> a bad one) for what it will cost me to get into the gate (not including
> travel and hotel), I have a hard time selling the idea to the wife and
> kitties.

******If you get even one really great idea from attending the
conference as a business expense, You can stand to make many thousands
of dollars from that one idea. You could change your whole outlook on
blacksmithing.
>
> > Tertiary comments...
> > To have more than 4 forge stations set up is a great thing, it gives
> > options.  But since a body can watch only one forge station at a time, the
> > return for the individual's investment is limited.
>
> ..........You can't put 500 - 1000 people around one or two
> demonstrators. First most couldn't see or hear what was going on and
> second the Fire Marshall doesn't want more than  150 people in a tent
> at a time. As a matter of fact, the insurance won't let us have open
> fires in tents, so they have to be called canopies.
>
>         This I understand.  But the direction of my comment was that if the
> gate fee is paying for 10 demonstrators all hammering at the same time, and
> I can see only one demonstrator, then I am paying for 10 and seeing 1, and
> am getting only 10% of my event fee returned to me.  That is distinctly
> adverse economy in any eye.
>         Now, having 2-3 forge stations and watching one, while paying an
> overhead of 100% or 200% is easier to digest.

***** On satellite TV one might pay $50 / month for 150 channels but
can only watch one at a time.
dm
>         And on the subject of tents vs canopies.  If there is an accident,
> and a subsequent law suit, and the lawyers for the insurance company read
> this email; then there is possible cause for dismissal of coverage, due to
> mis-leading statements.  I am certain that your way of saying this was
> inadvertent and totally mis-understood by me, and I will ignore the error in
> the future.
>
> > The SERC has on ground camping for those who wish to use it.  And there
> are
> > motels nearby for those who don't wish to camp.  There are bleachers, but
> > anyone who wishes brings a fold up chair.
>
> ..........New Paltz wouldn't allow camping on campus and there are
> fewer than 100 hotel rooms in the area. In Richmond (2004) fewer than
> 10 people out of nearly 1000 camped.
> dave m
>
>         One of the hazards of using a campus.  Though, admittedly there are
> benefits.  On the other hand, I am not surprised at the low camp rate.
> Anyone who can afford a high ticket event would certainly prefer a hotel for
> comfort.
>         I'm not throwing stones at the Winebago folks.  Anyone that can
> afford one, and can afford to attend events like this in one, are welcome in
> my mind.  But they aren't me, and I wonder if they also aren't (in many
> instances) the masses of blacksmiths with coal blackened faces and burns on
> their arms.  When I go to motorcycle swap meets, I point and tell my
> children "These aren't my people.  These people are what my people have
> become<G>."
>
> Good responses from you as well.  Civility will get things done.  And you
> are most gracious.
>
> All the Best
>
>
>
>
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