[TheForge] coffee and guns OT OT OT

[ries]

On the original point, I still think its silly to say that because we  
have small arms, the government we have doesnt become a  
dictatorship-  there are lots of countries with lots of guns in the  
hands of the populace that have governments that DO run roughshod  
over them- Iraq under Saddam featured the second or third highest  
number of guns per capita in the world, and the secret police would  
still disappear you.
And there are countries where, aside from gun ownership laws, the  
government arguably runs LESS roughshod over the populace than here-  
in many ways, Australia, or Finland, or Argentina, for example, are  
all more free than we are in many ways.

But my main objection is the action movie inspired viewpoint that a  
few brave souls with small arms can fight a government-  certainly,  
you could be a nuisance, but not win a war, and not dissuade a real  
army from occupying you and doing what it wanted.

Snipers are fearsome and do grave psychological damage. But the real  
casualties in any war in the last hundred years or so are almost  
always from artillery.
In Iraq, the vast majority of our casulties are from IED's- resulting  
from the hundreds of thousands of tons of HE and artillery shells  
that were lying around the country.
Statistically, well over half the coalition casualties in Iraq are  
IED caused.
In addition, the Iraqis have a seemingly endless supply of RPG's and  
Mortars.

Private citizens in the USA have none of this stuff.

Most small arms fire, even by trained soldiers, misses.

The police accuracy figures in the USA, by supposedly trained  
officers who must qualify as often as monthly, are unbelievably bad-  
I think hits are less than 30% from LESS THAN 20 FEET!

The simple fact is that in real combat situations, in real world  
situations, people panic, throw up, go catatonic, and freak. Trained  
people. Experienced people. And they often miss, no matter how good  
they are on the range.
Weapons break. In combat, everything that can go wrong does go wrong.
And this is with the entire might and force of the US military  
supplying you with the industrial output of the greatest nation on  
earth.

Its silly to think that average americans, with a couple hundred  
rounds of ammo, no matter how pure of heart, pose any kind of a real  
threat to an actual military.

The VietMinh had artillery as early as Dien Bien Phu- read Hell in a  
Very Small Place, about the 1954 battle against the French.
They were supplied, heavily, by both the Soviets and the Chinese.
The Ho Chi Minh trail was in constant use, supplying the Viet Cong in  
the south with weapons and ammo.

The French supplied the american rebels in the Revolutionary war, and  
without their support, we probably wouldnt have beaten the british.

The US jewish community smuggled surplus arms and even an entire  
scrap bullet factory to Israel in the late 40's

Every historical instance of a halfway successful guerilla insurgency  
always features outside support, money, and arms.

But the most offensive, and wrong, part of this whole idea, is the  
concept that there is an "us" and a "them", and that the US  
government is some kind of alien entity that WANTS to run roughshod  
over us, if only we didnt have all those mini 14's.

Thats just silly. The US government is US- it is average americans.  
Even Cheney, scumbag that he is, owns guns and hunts.
MY OWN MOTHER was an elected official for most of her adult life.
I have met politicians. And they are just like you and me- some nice,  
some nasty, some smart, some dumb.
Our system works because of its inherent checks and balances in the  
constitution and judicial system.
Both of which are mostly run by smart people who actually care about  
what they do.
Who could make more in private industry.
Yep, there are crooks and thieves, just like in any field.
But by and large, our country runs pretty well.

There is no big government conspiracy to screw you, if only you didnt  
have a shotgun behind your bedroom door.

You been watching too many movies, dude.

Ries



On Dec 19, 2007, at 11:16 AM, James Binnion wrote:


On Dec 19, 2007, at 1:45 AM, Andrew Vida wrote:
>
> As for training, I would say that most of the world'd best long  
> distance shooters were probably NOT trained by the military.  I'm  
> just guessing.


My studio assistant is a very talented rifle marksman, he competes at  
600 and even occasionally at 1000 yards with iron sights. It takes a  
highly skilled marksman to shoot accurately at those ranges and most  
but not all of them are current or ex military or LEO's.

Unless you are training regularly you will not be able to hit a man  
sized object at long ranges (500 yards or more) no matter how fancy  
the scope or rifle, just too many variables. Especially in combat  
type setting where you have not had the luxury of sighting in the  
scope/rifle on a range at a specific distance.


James Binnion
jbin at well.com



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Ries Niemi
Industrial Artist
http://www.riesniemi.com/