[TheForge] On the table monday.

[Kathy]

Hi Rick,
You are quite right about propylene; both the tanks and the fuel are about 40%
less than the price for MAPP here in Seattle, but it is completely stable (MAPP
is only fairly stable) and propylene's oxy-flame temperature is rated at 5240°
F; this is fairly close to older MPS gases, which have oxy-flame temperatures
rated anywhere from 5199° F to 5301° F for MAPP. Now, the interesting thing
about the higher rating for MAPP is that Air Liquide changed the formula after
they bought the rights to this proprietary fuel (actually, only the copyrighted
name was worth much by then); the higher flame temperature rating for MAPP as
apposed to other MPS fuels is a result of Air Liquide's having replaced the
propane content of the old formula with propylene.  

Agfuel; Apachi, Coogar 851,   FlameAll, FG-2, Ferromax Plus, HPG, PCG,  Handygas
2, Mappolene, Profuel, and Chemolene (not to be confused with Chem-O-Lene
although it's an obvious play on the name) are all either straight propylene or
are propylene mixed with additives (aromatic hydrocarbons) in order to enhance
performance and reduce oxygen consumption. One jewelry torch manufacturer also
refers to it as “Artificial Gas”. As a fuel gas, propylene is still being
experimented with by marketers.

I first tried propylene in one pound disposable cylinders, so that I could
quickly compare its performance in 1/2" tube burners against that of MAPP and
Propane. Burning in air, I couldn't tell the difference between propylene and
MAPP gas, both of which boosted the flame temperature of my hand burner
considerably. However, I'm too cheap to use propylene in a forge, the experiment
was done to decide which gas to use with compressed air for brazing (I bought
the propylene DOT cylinder and had it filled).
Mikey

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of Rick Korinek
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:44 PM
To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: RE: [TheForge] On the table monday.

Mickey, 
Regarding your search for methane, have you tried MAPP gas?  Welding gas
suppliers are starting to carry cylinders of this liquid fuel now.  Slightly
hotter than propane and way cheaper than acytelene.

Rick Korinek
Island City Forge
Minocqua, WI
islandcityforge.com


-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kathy
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 12:53 AM
To: 'Sponsored by ABANA'
Subject: RE: [TheForge] On the table monday.

Chuck,
Frosty covered the "gun burner" subject already; they're also commonly
called
fan burners. Really, there is a lot to be said for gun burners, I wouldn't
think
of using natural gas any other way. OK, I'd also make up a hand torch using
compressed air-methane after going to all the trouble to pipe natural gas
out to
the garage, who wouldn't? Then too, it would make a real spiffy fuel for a
ceramic chip brazing hearth (greed, greed, slobber, slobber). Recommending a
fuel that is famous for 87% SECONDARY flame combustion may seem a little
bizarre
coming from me, but spreading the heat that way isn't likely to melt the
brazing
hearth chips and grill parts either! This is just the kind of thing I meant
in
2004 by "one shoe size does not fit all." Rather, "a place for everything,
and
everything in its place." If you had ever seen a compressed air-natural gas
torch used for heating silver, etc., you'd not soon forget the site; very
nice.
Mikey

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of Jerry Frost
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:18 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] On the table monday.


From: "Chuck Robinson" <robi5515 at bellsouth.net>


> Hey Mikey,
> What is a gun burner? I assumed, apparently wrongly, that it was a 
> design like an oil furnace burner.
> Chuck
>

A gun burner has a blower supplying the air. Naturally aspirated means it
draws
it's own. Almost all oil burners are guns though it is possible to inject
oil at
a sufficient pressure to induce compustion air it isn't common at all.

On the oil burner front, the recent trend is to use an air brush as the oil
atomizer/injector. From what I hear from the pottery kiln and casters, it
works
pretty well.

Frosty
-------------------------------
If it ain't forged
it ain't real.
Wrought iron is.
The FrostWorks

Meadow Lakes, AK.

http://www.artmetalradio.com/

_______________________________________________
Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
theforge mail list group photo site is
http://www.photoaccess.com
Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
password:  anvil
___________




_______________________________________________
Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
theforge mail list group photo site is
http://www.photoaccess.com
Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
password:  anvil
___________




_______________________________________________
Manage membership or unsubscribe at:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/theforge
theforge mail list group photo site is
http://www.photoaccess.com
Login:  blacksmithblacksmith at hotmail.com
password:  anvil
___________