[TheForge] On the table monday.

[Kathy]

Chuck,
That leads into a discussion of oil burners; there have been many such on
Castinghobby (Yahoo newsgroup) over the years; if you're interested, join the
group and plunder their files. While oil burners can be made to burn cleanly,
the bottom line is that--all subjective reactions to kerosene torches aside--the
amount of Btu locked up in complex hydrocarbons (like diesel oil) is higher than
propane, but the theoretical flame temperatures of these fuels (when combusted
with air) are on a par with it; a smidge higher yes, but not enough to even
begin repaying the extra effort.

Diesel and compressed air is a completely different discussion from gun burners.
The two advantages to burning various fuels with compressed air are:
(1) Flame temperatures of compressed air-fuel mixtures are usually listed as
midway between (ambient) air-fuel and oxy-fuel.
(2) This is accomplished by using the compressed air's energy surplus to
manipulate the air-fuel mixture in the burner's nozzle in ways not possible to
tube burners or even to fan blown burners. The ability to manipulate flame
propagation speeds and flame shapes can be very useful in heating equipment. The
down side is that complex burner nozzles aren't something you want to seal up
within the equipment, so once again we are back to allowing secondary air into
the forge.

Nag, nag, nag: there I go harping on the evils of secondary air infiltration
again! Couldn't  old Frankenburner just stop yakking about the subject? Well,
let's consider someone trying to warm up their lab, while cracking open the
valve on say a tank of liquid nitrogen...extreme example? I have seen hobby
furnaces, where the performance dropped thirty percent until the operator
remembered to seal the burner portal; ditto with forges.   

How the particulars of compressed air-fuel burners work out within a forge could
make for a pretty complicated subject. Do I want to go there? Not unless someone
else is doing all the R & D
Mikey

-----Original Message-----
From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of Chuck Robinson
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:02 PM
To: Sponsored by ABANA
Subject: Re: [TheForge] On the table monday.

All the large black smithing shops I saw in Japan had diesel/compressed air 
fired forges. Only in small shops  and tool and blade making ops did they 
use coal or charcoal.
I'd like to see an in depth discussion of the pro's and Con's of gun 
burners.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kathy" <keporter at comcast.net>
To: "'Sponsored by ABANA'" <theforge at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 12:49 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] On the table monday.


> Frosty,
> I know this is going to sound strange coming from me, but I was thinking 
> about
> promoting a discussion of GUN BURNERS.
>
> Oh sure, I know, we didn't really believe that the devious Dr. 
> Frankenburner
> meant all those comments about no one shoe fits all; he was really just
> schmoozing, right? Wrong; I'm a perfectly ruthless person about tool 
> designs;
> even my own. There are good reasons to keep fan blown forge designs 
> around, and
> I have every intention of exploring them this year. Especially as I've 
> figured a
> way around my primary objection to them-dragon's breath. With movable 
> exterior
> baffles in place of small direct exhaust openings, the hot gases can be
> effectively directed away from the operator, opening up natural gas 
> burners to
> people, like myself, who don't believe in the nobility of suffering for 
> art's
> sake. Using such burners would also make the standard low priced safety
> equipment practical for installation on forges, etc. They won't work with 
> my
> burners (flame speed is too high; it snuffs out pilot lights).
>
> So, if anyone is interested in this conversation, I have no contract 
> restraints
> to muzzle my comments on the subject.
> Mikey
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:theforge-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
> On Behalf Of Jerry Frost
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 12:00 PM
> To: Sponsored by ABANA
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] On the table monday.
>
> Gee, thanks Mikey!
>
> Sounds like the way I filled in the thin spots in the
> last Newsletter.
>
> Besides, I don't have a lot more to say about burners
> untill I have a place to work on and experiment with
> them.
>
> Of course I'll be more than happy to read any such
> threads you generate. The longer the better!
>
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
>
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
>
> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
>
> From: "Kathy" <keporter at comcast.net>
>
>
>> Glad to hear your OK, Jerry.
>> Now that your good and stuck for something to
>> do...and since typing is going to
>> be pretty frustrating...but after all, you'll still
>> want to communicate with the
>> group...:-))) I just think it would be very worth
>> while for you to start a
>> technical discussion; perhaps a thread on burners, or
>> whatever. You could begin
>> by spending a few hours gathering materials (cut and
>> paste helps reduce typing
>> waste), and then spring into action!
>> Mikey
>>
>>
>
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