[TheForge] Guild System Titles

Thu Apr 12 08:41:36 EDT 2007

Thanks for the practical discussion.

I had done some research, and found the Boilermakers Union (and no, 
that's not the rec center at Purdue U.) They are at 
http://www.boilermakers.org. I had followed a link there 
(http://www.bnap.com/career.htm) which lists their current 
apprenticeship requirements. So, I thought I'd see what people here thought.

As for the boilermakers: besides a lot of lifting and ironwork (erecting 
steel structures as 200 to 1000 feet above ground), they require 6000 
hours of OJT. Given that I currently average about 6-10 per week, I only 
need about another 10 years or so of experience :-) For those doing 
calculations, a nominal work year is 2000 hours (50 weeks x 40 hrs/wk) 
The other 2 weeks/10 days are holidays.  So their program is 3 years. 
Since I'm not at an age where I'd tolerate or even survive some of that, 
I like the "Level 1", "intermediate", "practitioner" approach.

Although these terms are rather vague, they do convey the "I know almost 
nothing", "I have some advanced skills", and "I can do most things" kind 
of qualifications.

But as I've found out as I do this for a while, there's a big difference 
between being able to perform a skill, like "simple" forge welding, (no 
anchors, or complex welds) and having the real mastery of even hammer 
control and speed to draw out and shape your work in only a few heats. I 
think the skill of making repeatable pieces is noteworthy with respect 
to earning a more intermediate rank.

I may look like I know what I'm doing to the uninitiated, but put me 
with a true "master" and I'm sure they'd cringe at much of my technique.

That being said, what kinds of demonstrable skills might an 
"intermediate" smith posses? Would it be simply being able to draw out 
small stock, punch and drift holes, produce a mortise and tenon joints, 
perform a "drop the tongs" weld, 'T' weld ... Or do them reliably, 
repeatably (so they match). Then there's the whole gamut of metal 
knowledge and heat treating. Of course, for small ornamental projects, 
these are of lesser importance.

Are these also part of an "intermediate" or "practitioners" skills? I'm 
sure some will say "yes", others "that depends". Since there isn't any 
formal structure, I guess we're free to call ourselves whatever we want. 
I just didn't feel I was ready for "Journeyman" and while I no longer 
consider myself a "beginner", I was just looking for accepted ways to 
describe my skill level.

BTW, what brought me to this topic was that some pieces I made while 
demonstrating at a local museum were put up for sale at the gift shop 
and tagged (not by me) as "made by journeyman blacksmith ..." I objected 
to being called a journeyman, to which the gift shop proprietor let me 
know that people don't want to buy things from a 50 year old apprentice. 
Anyway, it left me wondering what I might have to do to actually qualify 
for that "journeyman" title.

Thanks
**Paul M

Jerry Frost wrote:
> Paul:
> 
> Don't wait till there's nothing else going on to ask a question! It's 
> not like we're paying by the message. <grin>
> 
> It's a good question too and comes up every now and then.
> 
> While you're right about there not being a real guild anymore, there is 
> still a union representing blacksmiths though I don't recall which one 
> it is. If you're looking for the "real" qualifications, they may be the 
> ones to ask.
> 
> If on the other hand you're wondering what to tell people or how to 
> "rank" yourself I think there's some common sense criteria to compare. 
> (Of course there has never been a real consensus on this list so. . .)
> 
> In the old days (good is a matter of perspective) an apprentice was 
> little more than an indentured servant. You'd do all the grunt work, 
> cleaning, hauling, packing, fetch and carry, whatever the smith needed. 
> Depending on what the shop's main focus was an apprentice would 
> eventually work up to doing some basic smithing functions like: 
> striking, straightening, nail making, etc.
> 
> After a while the "master" (I'll get to what a "master" smith is in a 
> bit) MIGHT let you borrow, maybe RENT you a hammer and sell you some 
> scrap to practice on. If he's generous he'll let you sift through the 
> ashes for useable coal for your fire.
> 
> Eventually the apprentice would have made a enough basic tools and 
> learned enough to start drawing some of the "master" smith's business 
> away. At which point the "master" smith was most likely to send you down 
> the road to find your own market. Thus making you a Journeyman.
> 
> Master smith. A master is the owner of the shop. We discussed this at 
> length a few years ago and nobody could come up with a set of 
> qualifications for "master smith" other than owning his/er own business. 
> We all agreed there were and are people who'd qualify on anybody's list 
> as Master smiths we just couldn't agree on what those qualifications 
> should be. I have my own idea of what a master "anything" is but I won't 
> bore you with it. <grin>
> 
> In these modern times you have it a LOT better than in the "good" old 
> days. While blacksmithing is no longer an industrial trade you won't 
> have to worry about selling yourself into servitude to learn the trade. 
> With a little research you can get a set price for courses with 
> guaranteed curricula from people with credentials.
> 
> Okay, your basic question is where do you stand in the skills level of 
> the blacksmith's craft.
> 
> Have you lit a few fires, deformed some steel, iron, etc.? Really have 
> the bug? = Novice, beginner, newby, etc.
> 
> Can you do all the basic skills somewhat reliably? Made a few tools, 
> christmas gifts, drawn the neighborhood kids with a fire and the ringing 
> of the anvil? = Level 1. (whatever you wish to call it)
> 
> You can do all the basic stuff reliably and repeatably. You can make a 
> set of four somethings and have them all come out with enough 
> differences they have personality but are obviously a matching set. You 
> can take a commission from somebody who want three more toasting forks 
> (or whatever) just like THIS one and make him spend a few minutes 
> picking his original from the set. (okay, I can't do this very 
> well.<grin>) = Intermediate, practitioner, journeyman, etc.
> 
> You can reproduce damned near anything and make it look easy. = Expert.
> 
> Of course that's just my opinion.
> 
> I could be wrong. <grin>
> 
> Frosty
> -------------------------------
> If it ain't forged
> it ain't real.
> Wrought iron is.
> The FrostWorks
> 
> Meadow Lakes, AK.
> 
> http://www.artmetalradio.com/
> 
> From: "Paul" <crosspein at sbcglobal.net>
> 
> 
>> Since there's nothing else going on here, I figure now would be a good 
>> time to ask.
>>
>> Since there doesn't seem to be a formal guild system for blacksmiths 
>> anymore, How might we "experienced beginners" rank ourselves?
>>
>> Are we forever doomed to be "Apprentices"?
>>
>> At what point might we become a "Journeyman"?
>>
>> Better still, what qualifications might be required of someone to 
>> acquire the title of "Master"?
>>
>> Sorry if this was discussed in the past. I didn't bother to search the 
>> archives, as I thought it may generate some interesting discussion.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> **Paul N.
>>
> 
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